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"monetized private blockchain thingy" is a gross misrepresentation of the project. Please read the design notes [1] before making any assumptions, sir! Rather

"monetized private blockchain thingy" is a gross misrepresentation of the project. Please read the design notes [1] before making any assumptions, sir! Rather than being a 'blockchain' project, Handshake is a project that makes use of blockchain technology to solve a real problem that the world has been trying to solve for some time [2]. [1] https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICANN#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICANN#History

tptacek 7y ago
Is it not monetized? That's the part of this that makes it ridiculous to me. Later: Sure looks monetized: https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/handshake https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/handshake Is this just someone stealing the Handshake project's name, or does the Handshake project really believe that a piece of Internet infrastructure will be run off a trading cryptocurrency --- and, not just that, but their trading cryptocurrency?
- rasengan 7y ago
  Again, sir, I urge you to read the design notes [1] as it will answer many of your questions and uncertainties around this project. That said, you are someone I respect to the highest levels possible, so I sincerely appreciate the comments and criticisms shared thus far and earnestly hope that your participation will continue! With that aside, to answer your question regarding monetized/cryptocurrency, here is an excerpt from the notes and there are far more details that can be found therein: A blockchain is proposed which optimizes for correcting prior weaknesses around acknowledging stakeholders such as existing top-level domain (TLD) holders and optimizes for decentralization (while still allowing for n-of-m attestations). Users use the native token (coin) to register TLDs which are pinned to a specific certificate as the identity. A committed merkelized proof of all top-level names allow for compact, shareable inclusion and exclusion proofs. This blockchain exists to attempt to resolve the need for a globally unique namespace which is necessary to have an association with unique names and certificates. While it's possible to create a singular centralized globally unique association (DNSSEC), a decentralized system can be resolved by creating a blockchain with its own cryptoeconomic incentives (coin), including name auctions of a unique namespace and block creation. Scarce resources require sybil protection, usually managed by a central trusted authority (CAs, ICANN), but can be resolved by having a blockchain based mechanism for global consensus and resource allocation. [1] https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt (# Project Summary)
  - tptacek 7y ago
    Is Handshake based on a cryptocurrency coin? Does that coin trade on coin markets? Are there early backers and investors? If so: it's a dead project. I don't know why anyone would take it seriously. I'm skeptical of the entire model for any application. But for Internet infrastructure? Never going to happen.
    - rasengan 7y ago
      > Is Handshake based on a cryptocurrency coin? Does that coin trade on coin markets? Are there early backers and investors? Handshake is based on the ideal that the internet belongs to the people. > If so: it's a dead project. I don't know why anyone would take it seriously. I'm skeptical of the entire model for any application. But for Internet infrastructure? Never going to happen. People will always strive for better. I believe it will be Handshake, but if not, something else will come. People find a way, that's how we all got here today. This very thread itself is proof that the current system doesn't fulfill the wishes of humanity and there is a need for change. If you believe Handshake has faults, let's all work together and improve it!
      - tptacek 7y ago
        Sure. Step 1: lose the speculative cryptocurrency.
        rasengan 7y ago
        > Sure. Step 1: lose the speculative cryptocurrency. The step seemed like it lacked any understanding of the mechanism design of handshake, and I realized it's because we skipped a step here. I like to start my count with 0: Step 0: Please read the design notes document. Let's be constructive here. Later: In all seriousness, though, I urge you to read and understand how Handshake works and how different it is from these other 'cryptocurrency' projects that I am (and I'm sure many in the hn community) on the exact same page as you about. I trust you'll see why the community is moving in this direction. Later 2: Just incase you don't read the paper, the coin, and auction process, helps prevent sybil attacks among other things.
- tasuki 7y ago
  Thomas, I also highly respect you. While you're not wrong in anything you write, you're doing the conversation a disservice by not reading the design notes [1]. Perhaps if you're really short on time (aren't we all?), you might at least find it amusing that the Handshake developers took $10 million of VC money and donated it to Free and Open Source foundations [2]. That was actual cash donated, not just magical internet money. [1] https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt [2] https://handshake.org/grant-sponsors/ https://handshake.org/grant-sponsors/
  - tptacek 7y ago
    In exchange for that money, Handshake appears to want the Internet to donate something of great value (authority over the DNS) so Handshake can sell it back to them. It doesn't even matter what I think about this design. Speaking positively, not normatively: this is never going to happen. Everyone from billion dollar corporations to academic research labs to inexplicably influential Internet curmudgeons working out of basements will recoil from this.
    - rasengan 7y ago
      That's not the case at all, but feel free to make false assumptions. That being said, given every single time you appear in a thread and have a counter opinion and downvotes ensue seconds after and then cease immediately, it's clear you know exactly what a sybil attack is - if your email address wasn't enough of a hint. Now speaking positively, not normatively, you can continue to make up stories, but the majority of the coins were already distributed to open source contributors. If you weren't included in this, I would suggest finding some great projects to contribute to instead of building up 300,000 karma on hacker news by spending all day trying to force your false narrative.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        Pro-tip: Handshake coins can be exchanged for US dollars or Bitcoin on the Namebase exchange. This is a great time to HODL and use your airdrop to bid on available Handshake domain names. As the adoption of HNS and Handshake domains increases, we are likely to see the value of both these assets increase over time. As early airdrop recipients, you are the best advocates and builders of Handshake. Yeah this seems super legit. Can I do it too? I'd like to blockchain ARP. I'll pre-distribute my ARPCoins to open source developers, so it'll be totally above board. Down with the IEEE Registration Authority! Up with the people!

tptacek 7y ago

Is it not monetized? That's the part of this that makes it ridiculous to me. Later: Sure looks monetized: https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/handshake https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/handshake Is this just someone stealing the Handshake project's name, or does the Handshake project really believe that a piece of Internet infrastructure will be run off a trading cryptocurrency --- and, not just that, but their trading cryptocurrency?

rasengan 7y ago
Again, sir, I urge you to read the design notes [1] as it will answer many of your questions and uncertainties around this project. That said, you are someone I respect to the highest levels possible, so I sincerely appreciate the comments and criticisms shared thus far and earnestly hope that your participation will continue! With that aside, to answer your question regarding monetized/cryptocurrency, here is an excerpt from the notes and there are far more details that can be found therein: A blockchain is proposed which optimizes for correcting prior weaknesses around acknowledging stakeholders such as existing top-level domain (TLD) holders and optimizes for decentralization (while still allowing for n-of-m attestations). Users use the native token (coin) to register TLDs which are pinned to a specific certificate as the identity. A committed merkelized proof of all top-level names allow for compact, shareable inclusion and exclusion proofs. This blockchain exists to attempt to resolve the need for a globally unique namespace which is necessary to have an association with unique names and certificates. While it's possible to create a singular centralized globally unique association (DNSSEC), a decentralized system can be resolved by creating a blockchain with its own cryptoeconomic incentives (coin), including name auctions of a unique namespace and block creation. Scarce resources require sybil protection, usually managed by a central trusted authority (CAs, ICANN), but can be resolved by having a blockchain based mechanism for global consensus and resource allocation. [1] https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt (# Project Summary)
- tptacek 7y ago
  Is Handshake based on a cryptocurrency coin? Does that coin trade on coin markets? Are there early backers and investors? If so: it's a dead project. I don't know why anyone would take it seriously. I'm skeptical of the entire model for any application. But for Internet infrastructure? Never going to happen.
  - rasengan 7y ago
    > Is Handshake based on a cryptocurrency coin? Does that coin trade on coin markets? Are there early backers and investors? Handshake is based on the ideal that the internet belongs to the people. > If so: it's a dead project. I don't know why anyone would take it seriously. I'm skeptical of the entire model for any application. But for Internet infrastructure? Never going to happen. People will always strive for better. I believe it will be Handshake, but if not, something else will come. People find a way, that's how we all got here today. This very thread itself is proof that the current system doesn't fulfill the wishes of humanity and there is a need for change. If you believe Handshake has faults, let's all work together and improve it!
    - tptacek 7y ago
      Sure. Step 1: lose the speculative cryptocurrency.
      - rasengan 7y ago
        > Sure. Step 1: lose the speculative cryptocurrency. The step seemed like it lacked any understanding of the mechanism design of handshake, and I realized it's because we skipped a step here. I like to start my count with 0: Step 0: Please read the design notes document. Let's be constructive here. Later: In all seriousness, though, I urge you to read and understand how Handshake works and how different it is from these other 'cryptocurrency' projects that I am (and I'm sure many in the hn community) on the exact same page as you about. I trust you'll see why the community is moving in this direction. Later 2: Just incase you don't read the paper, the coin, and auction process, helps prevent sybil attacks among other things.
tasuki 7y ago
Thomas, I also highly respect you. While you're not wrong in anything you write, you're doing the conversation a disservice by not reading the design notes [1]. Perhaps if you're really short on time (aren't we all?), you might at least find it amusing that the Handshake developers took $10 million of VC money and donated it to Free and Open Source foundations [2]. That was actual cash donated, not just magical internet money. [1] https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt https://handshake.org/files/handshake.txt [2] https://handshake.org/grant-sponsors/ https://handshake.org/grant-sponsors/
- tptacek 7y ago
  In exchange for that money, Handshake appears to want the Internet to donate something of great value (authority over the DNS) so Handshake can sell it back to them. It doesn't even matter what I think about this design. Speaking positively, not normatively: this is never going to happen. Everyone from billion dollar corporations to academic research labs to inexplicably influential Internet curmudgeons working out of basements will recoil from this.
  - rasengan 7y ago
    That's not the case at all, but feel free to make false assumptions. That being said, given every single time you appear in a thread and have a counter opinion and downvotes ensue seconds after and then cease immediately, it's clear you know exactly what a sybil attack is - if your email address wasn't enough of a hint. Now speaking positively, not normatively, you can continue to make up stories, but the majority of the coins were already distributed to open source contributors. If you weren't included in this, I would suggest finding some great projects to contribute to instead of building up 300,000 karma on hacker news by spending all day trying to force your false narrative.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      Pro-tip: Handshake coins can be exchanged for US dollars or Bitcoin on the Namebase exchange. This is a great time to HODL and use your airdrop to bid on available Handshake domain names. As the adoption of HNS and Handshake domains increases, we are likely to see the value of both these assets increase over time. As early airdrop recipients, you are the best advocates and builders of Handshake. Yeah this seems super legit. Can I do it too? I'd like to blockchain ARP. I'll pre-distribute my ARPCoins to open source developers, so it'll be totally above board. Down with the IEEE Registration Authority! Up with the people!