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This planet will always have people who are always not happy with something. And don't get me wrong it positive. Even stupid alarming vaccine campaigns caused b

by maxdo 7y ago

This planet will always have people who are always not happy with something. And don't get me wrong it positive. Even stupid alarming vaccine campaigns caused better results evaluation. And since this is a liberal society where you can't force people to stay at home even if it will cause death, oh well... this is the only way, someone should die without vaccine first.

smt88 7y ago
> Even stupid alarming vaccine campaigns caused better results evaluation. What does this mean? It doesn't make sense in English, so could you please elaborate? > someone should die without vaccine This is a fundamental misunderstanding of why anti-vaxxers are a problem. They don't just kill themselves. They break herd immunity and put other people at risk. They have already caused outbreaks that have killed adults and children who did get their vaccines.
- dariusj18 7y ago
  I think they mean, the science is more rigorous because they have to deal with anti-vaxxers.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
> oh well herd immunity is a big deal for many different reasons - it stops the spread - it protects the immunocompromised - it protects newborns and those too young/old to get vaccinations
duckMuppet 7y ago
It's not about the vaccines. It's about control. If the ppl are vaccinated, those ppl should be safe, and in theory those unvaccinated masses dying off from X illness increases the overall fitness of the population. However, it's not at all about that. This is about forcing those who may not think or believe the same to not only acquiesce, but to actively proclaim they are science deniers and that another group is infallible and correct. I'm not an anti-vaxxer per-se, i think vaccines for things such as polio, mmr are important. But i don't think others such as flu and possibly hpv are worth the risk. I don't support forced vaccination however, and the more those who loudly tout forced vaccinations the more it leads me to believe that there may be credibility issues with the vaccine efficacy and the vaccination's research.
- toss1 7y ago
  It is not control, it is the anti-vaxxers freeloading on the herd immunity maintained by the smart people and deliberately endangering the people with genuine medical conditions that prevent vaccination & so literally depend on the herd immunity to live We are not on the Lewis & Clark expedition, we live in a highly complex society, which requires serious maintenance.
  - lpah4all 7y ago
    Smart people are loathe to trust for-profit corps with their health. How safe do you find those opioids now? What were they saying in front of the congressional committee? What were their sales reps saying? What were their privately-funded goal-seeking researchers saying? Medical science and profit should not be mixed. I mean, look at this mess here in America.
    - toss1 7y ago
      We can agree that profit motive can corrupt science and delivery of medicine without declaring that all of medicine is therefore bad. It is called not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Smart people make finer distinctions.
      - lpah4all 7y ago
        Honest, capable people don't put words in other people's mouths. Please show me where I said, "All of medicine is therefore bad." No, you said that. Now, will you apologize? I doubt it. Will you do better at reading and understanding in the future? I sincerely hope so.
        toss1 7y ago
        >>Smart people are loathe to trust for-profit corps with their health. The sentence very clearly implies all, and nowhere in the post is an indication that you mean any restriction to part (vs all) of the med/pharm profession In fact, you go out of your way to point out the malfeasance pushing opioids and imply that it also applies to vaccines, when it is entirely different industry segments, companies, etc. I'll not only not apolgize, I'll point out that you are specifically arguing in bad faith, disingenuously arguing by implication, and when called out on it, histrionically backtracking and accusing others of falsehoods. Grow up. learn science, stop trying to disingenuously undermine the good work of generations of researchers and physicians that keeps you healthy. Sheesh

by maxdo 7y ago

smt88 7y ago

> Even stupid alarming vaccine campaigns caused better results evaluation. What does this mean? It doesn't make sense in English, so could you please elaborate? > someone should die without vaccine This is a fundamental misunderstanding of why anti-vaxxers are a problem. They don't just kill themselves. They break herd immunity and put other people at risk. They have already caused outbreaks that have killed adults and children who did get their vaccines.

dariusj18 7y ago
I think they mean, the science is more rigorous because they have to deal with anti-vaxxers.

bryanlarsen 7y ago

> oh well herd immunity is a big deal for many different reasons - it stops the spread - it protects the immunocompromised - it protects newborns and those too young/old to get vaccinations

duckMuppet 7y ago

It's not about the vaccines. It's about control. If the ppl are vaccinated, those ppl should be safe, and in theory those unvaccinated masses dying off from X illness increases the overall fitness of the population. However, it's not at all about that. This is about forcing those who may not think or believe the same to not only acquiesce, but to actively proclaim they are science deniers and that another group is infallible and correct. I'm not an anti-vaxxer per-se, i think vaccines for things such as polio, mmr are important. But i don't think others such as flu and possibly hpv are worth the risk. I don't support forced vaccination however, and the more those who loudly tout forced vaccinations the more it leads me to believe that there may be credibility issues with the vaccine efficacy and the vaccination's research.

toss1 7y ago
It is not control, it is the anti-vaxxers freeloading on the herd immunity maintained by the smart people and deliberately endangering the people with genuine medical conditions that prevent vaccination & so literally depend on the herd immunity to live We are not on the Lewis & Clark expedition, we live in a highly complex society, which requires serious maintenance.
- lpah4all 7y ago
  Smart people are loathe to trust for-profit corps with their health. How safe do you find those opioids now? What were they saying in front of the congressional committee? What were their sales reps saying? What were their privately-funded goal-seeking researchers saying? Medical science and profit should not be mixed. I mean, look at this mess here in America.
  - toss1 7y ago
    We can agree that profit motive can corrupt science and delivery of medicine without declaring that all of medicine is therefore bad. It is called not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Smart people make finer distinctions.
    - lpah4all 7y ago
      Honest, capable people don't put words in other people's mouths. Please show me where I said, "All of medicine is therefore bad." No, you said that. Now, will you apologize? I doubt it. Will you do better at reading and understanding in the future? I sincerely hope so.
      - toss1 7y ago
        >>Smart people are loathe to trust for-profit corps with their health. The sentence very clearly implies all, and nowhere in the post is an indication that you mean any restriction to part (vs all) of the med/pharm profession In fact, you go out of your way to point out the malfeasance pushing opioids and imply that it also applies to vaccines, when it is entirely different industry segments, companies, etc. I'll not only not apolgize, I'll point out that you are specifically arguing in bad faith, disingenuously arguing by implication, and when called out on it, histrionically backtracking and accusing others of falsehoods. Grow up. learn science, stop trying to disingenuously undermine the good work of generations of researchers and physicians that keeps you healthy. Sheesh