11 ms·

Although it's still considered a fringe/conspiracy theory, I've heard some interesting claims on the use of digital ids and immunity certificates for verifying

Although it's still considered a fringe/conspiracy theory, I've heard some interesting claims on the use of digital ids and immunity certificates for verifying who has been vaccinated. - https://id2020.org/ https://id2020.org/ - https://youtu.be/-aR7cz30chE?t=145 https://youtu.be/-aR7cz30chE?t=145

triyambakam 6y ago
It's not a theory, recently Bill Gates did an AMA on Reddit [1] and verified that ID2020 would indeed be used to verify who has been vaccinated. The conspiracy theory aspect is whatever one wants to expound on from there... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fksnbf/comment/fkupg49 https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fksnbf/comment...
- krapp 6y ago
  >The conspiracy theory aspect is whatever one wants to expound on from there... Let me guess... Mark of the Beast, rise of the Antichrist, New World Order, FEMA death camps, blah blah blah. Same stuff, different decade.
  - dreamache 6y ago
    Wrong. Money, power & control. If you limit what one can do if they don't have a vaccine, you create an artificial demand for the vaccine, thus driving profits through the roof. Basic economics there. I won't be getting my "ID" card if they ever make one.
    - tobylane 6y ago
      What if it’s a non profit who use Western profits to subsidise third world efforts? This already happens in other areas of medicine, far more so in the for profit sector. Limit what one can do without a visa, up the artificial demand to useful levels of herd immunity, and use the profits to fund doing the same in Africa.
    - krapp 6y ago
      Except the fewer people who get (or can afford) the vaccine, the weaker herd immunity becomes, and the more likely a future outbreak might lead to another shutdown of the economy, to say nothing of the profits from a vaccine you might only need to take once per year likely not offsetting the losses from sick workers who can't be vaccinated throughout that year. The ROI for that scheme seems terrible, but maybe I just don't understand basic economics well enough. It seems obvious to me that they could make more money charging less for the vaccine and more to companies and government for implementation and data infrastructure.
  - triyambakam 6y ago
    So you'll take the tattoo microchip? That's what ID2020 is...
    - detaro 6y ago
      https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-bill-gates-micr-idUSKBN21I3EC https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-bil...
- lukeplato 6y ago
  IMO, it doesn't seem appropriate to set up a global identification system by leveraging the crisis, but I don't know what the alternatives would look like.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    Not setting up a global id system? I do not see why do we need one in the first place? The world is full of deadly deseases anyway, so endangered people allways have to look out and vaccines allmost never guarantee 100% immunity.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Tainnor 6y ago
      this is such an all-or-nothing response. The combination of rapid spread and not negligible mortality makes covid19 a much higher threat globally than most other diseases, as has been shown repeatedly. Even a lot of not-at-risk individuals will die from it. We really shouldn't be arguing over these facts anymore. and in fact, we're still lucky. nothing guarantees that we might not have a worse infection in the future that is as contagious but much deadlier (think of something like Ebola but much more contagious). if we can somehow diminish the threat, it's worth thinking about it. it might be that the tradeoffs are not worth it (locking everyone up for two years for example wouldn't qualify), but it's still worth thinking about options. that includes imperfect options like a vaccine.
      - hartator 6y ago
        > We really shouldn't be arguing over these facts anymore. Well actual death tolls for the US would be around 60,000 which is comparable of number of new suicides due to lockdowns.
        Tainnor 6y ago
        you do understand what it means to be at the beginning of an exponential curve, right? this is not going to grow linearly, if this is not contained somehow, you could be looking at millions of deaths in the US alone. again, all these numbers have been debated so many times before.
- kiba 6y ago
  We already have driver licenses. It wouldn't be too difficult to expand to driver license plus immunity card.
  - goatinaboat 6y ago
    Or driving licence + vaccinations + eligibility to vote
  - triyambakam 6y ago
    Well, what is unique is that this is a tattoo microchip, rather than a card
    - yters 6y ago
      Where does the website say this? It is quite vague about implementation details, at least from what I can find. Closest I could find was a conspiracy theory linking a separate study into using quantum dots to record vaccination. https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/11/523/eaay7162 https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/11/523/eaay7162
      - aklhdq 6y ago
        It is not a microchip, but not a conspiracy theory either: http://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218 http://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218 "Funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Koch Institute " Thankfully this won't fly in Germany, because the Nazis tattooed concentration camp victims with numbers. Not sure about the U.S. though.
        crocodiletears 6y ago
        This is exactly the kind of thing the lunatic militias in the 90s were terrified about. Those people are still around, and if you try to give them 'the mark of the beast', for better or worse, there will be blood.
        yters 6y ago
- wolco 6y ago
  Bill Gates strikes me as someone who will be a villian to society as he ages. Bill Gates lacks the empathy necessary to design solutions with people in mind. The threat comes from the power he unleshes through his charity foundation. Things like ID2020 will be expanded. The forced vaccination program through excluding participation in society hasn't started yet. Chances are your kid will not be allowed in school without one at some point.
  - logicchains 6y ago
    >Bill Gates strikes me as someone who will be a villian to society as he ages. To a lot of people who were in tech in the '90s, he was also a villain to society when he was younger.
    - wolco 6y ago
      He was but really he had more of a commercial mindset that was against level playing fields and against free software. It didn't make him evil but not a role model either. Now that his imagine has changed and he is playing with medicine buying off the news he is more dangerous to everyone. https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundation-philanthropy/ https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundat...
  - Tainnor 6y ago
    Everyone who doesn't get vaccinated even though they could is a risk to other people who e.g. can't get vaccinated due to health reasons. By contrast, that person benefits immensely from herd immunity. To me this is the definition of freeloading and therefore antisocial.
    - tmn 6y ago
      That would be more fair if the same people who don't get the vaccine actively support the vaccine mandate. From my experience this is not true. They simply do not trust institution. Their motive is not free loading herd immunity and avoiding the hassle of doing it themselves.

triyambakam 6y ago

It's not a theory, recently Bill Gates did an AMA on Reddit [1] and verified that ID2020 would indeed be used to verify who has been vaccinated. The conspiracy theory aspect is whatever one wants to expound on from there... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fksnbf/comment/fkupg49 https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fksnbf/comment...

krapp 6y ago
>The conspiracy theory aspect is whatever one wants to expound on from there... Let me guess... Mark of the Beast, rise of the Antichrist, New World Order, FEMA death camps, blah blah blah. Same stuff, different decade.
- dreamache 6y ago
  Wrong. Money, power & control. If you limit what one can do if they don't have a vaccine, you create an artificial demand for the vaccine, thus driving profits through the roof. Basic economics there. I won't be getting my "ID" card if they ever make one.
  - tobylane 6y ago
    What if it’s a non profit who use Western profits to subsidise third world efforts? This already happens in other areas of medicine, far more so in the for profit sector. Limit what one can do without a visa, up the artificial demand to useful levels of herd immunity, and use the profits to fund doing the same in Africa.
  - krapp 6y ago
    Except the fewer people who get (or can afford) the vaccine, the weaker herd immunity becomes, and the more likely a future outbreak might lead to another shutdown of the economy, to say nothing of the profits from a vaccine you might only need to take once per year likely not offsetting the losses from sick workers who can't be vaccinated throughout that year. The ROI for that scheme seems terrible, but maybe I just don't understand basic economics well enough. It seems obvious to me that they could make more money charging less for the vaccine and more to companies and government for implementation and data infrastructure.
- triyambakam 6y ago
  So you'll take the tattoo microchip? That's what ID2020 is...
  - detaro 6y ago
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-bill-gates-micr-idUSKBN21I3EC https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-bil...
lukeplato 6y ago
IMO, it doesn't seem appropriate to set up a global identification system by leveraging the crisis, but I don't know what the alternatives would look like.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  Not setting up a global id system? I do not see why do we need one in the first place? The world is full of deadly deseases anyway, so endangered people allways have to look out and vaccines allmost never guarantee 100% immunity.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Tainnor 6y ago
    this is such an all-or-nothing response. The combination of rapid spread and not negligible mortality makes covid19 a much higher threat globally than most other diseases, as has been shown repeatedly. Even a lot of not-at-risk individuals will die from it. We really shouldn't be arguing over these facts anymore. and in fact, we're still lucky. nothing guarantees that we might not have a worse infection in the future that is as contagious but much deadlier (think of something like Ebola but much more contagious). if we can somehow diminish the threat, it's worth thinking about it. it might be that the tradeoffs are not worth it (locking everyone up for two years for example wouldn't qualify), but it's still worth thinking about options. that includes imperfect options like a vaccine.
    - hartator 6y ago
      > We really shouldn't be arguing over these facts anymore. Well actual death tolls for the US would be around 60,000 which is comparable of number of new suicides due to lockdowns.
      - Tainnor 6y ago
        you do understand what it means to be at the beginning of an exponential curve, right? this is not going to grow linearly, if this is not contained somehow, you could be looking at millions of deaths in the US alone. again, all these numbers have been debated so many times before.
kiba 6y ago
We already have driver licenses. It wouldn't be too difficult to expand to driver license plus immunity card.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  Or driving licence + vaccinations + eligibility to vote
- triyambakam 6y ago
  Well, what is unique is that this is a tattoo microchip, rather than a card
  - yters 6y ago
    Where does the website say this? It is quite vague about implementation details, at least from what I can find. Closest I could find was a conspiracy theory linking a separate study into using quantum dots to record vaccination. https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/11/523/eaay7162 https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/11/523/eaay7162
    - aklhdq 6y ago
      It is not a microchip, but not a conspiracy theory either: http://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218 http://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218 "Funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Koch Institute " Thankfully this won't fly in Germany, because the Nazis tattooed concentration camp victims with numbers. Not sure about the U.S. though.
      - crocodiletears 6y ago
        This is exactly the kind of thing the lunatic militias in the 90s were terrified about. Those people are still around, and if you try to give them 'the mark of the beast', for better or worse, there will be blood.
      - yters 6y ago
wolco 6y ago
Bill Gates strikes me as someone who will be a villian to society as he ages. Bill Gates lacks the empathy necessary to design solutions with people in mind. The threat comes from the power he unleshes through his charity foundation. Things like ID2020 will be expanded. The forced vaccination program through excluding participation in society hasn't started yet. Chances are your kid will not be allowed in school without one at some point.
- logicchains 6y ago
  >Bill Gates strikes me as someone who will be a villian to society as he ages. To a lot of people who were in tech in the '90s, he was also a villain to society when he was younger.
  - wolco 6y ago
    He was but really he had more of a commercial mindset that was against level playing fields and against free software. It didn't make him evil but not a role model either. Now that his imagine has changed and he is playing with medicine buying off the news he is more dangerous to everyone. https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundation-philanthropy/ https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundat...
- Tainnor 6y ago
  Everyone who doesn't get vaccinated even though they could is a risk to other people who e.g. can't get vaccinated due to health reasons. By contrast, that person benefits immensely from herd immunity. To me this is the definition of freeloading and therefore antisocial.
  - tmn 6y ago
    That would be more fair if the same people who don't get the vaccine actively support the vaccine mandate. From my experience this is not true. They simply do not trust institution. Their motive is not free loading herd immunity and avoiding the hassle of doing it themselves.