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> Are we really suggesting that every end-to-end encryption technology be nuked in favor of “saving the children?” Yes. Their goal is to nuke encryption. The c

by ohazi 7y ago

> Are we really suggesting that every end-to-end encryption technology be nuked in favor of “saving the children?” Yes. Their goal is to nuke encryption. The children are a red herring. This is solely about government power.

etrabroline 7y ago
>Yes. Their goal is to nuke encryption Who is "they"? Are you talking about the deep state? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deep_state https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deep_state > A large group of people, typically members of government agencies and the military, believed to have long-lasting political influence that is difficult for an administration voted into power to counter. [from 1990s]
- neltnerb 7y ago
  United States law enforcement doesn't have the greatest track record of not blackmailing people. Or not shooting the wrong person and their dog for good measure. If you want to call the FBI, NSA, and CIA the "deep state" go ahead. They have real names though and aren't secretive about their desire to make (end to end) encryption illegal.
  - etrabroline 7y ago
    While the deep state as a scholarly concept does not require secrecy, this bill certainly uses deception to manipulate the public, and did not originate with Representative Feinstein's local constituency as evidenced by the overwhelming opposition. >A deep state can also take the form of entrenched career civil servants acting in a non-conspiratorial discretionary manner to further their agency mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state The question I wish would be asked is "should the deep state (CIA, NSA etc) be influencing the legislative process to the point of overriding the concerns of voters?" This is pretty funny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#Differences_from_scholarly_understanding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#Differences_from_sc...
  - jekeiko838 7y ago
    Humanity does not have the best track record of not abusing people Wrapping it in nation state theatricality is asinine A while back there was a paper that relied on newly recovered census records found in old rural European churches. This helped fill in gaps in a timeline of who died from what causes, etc Death attributed to fallout of nation state terrorism was normalized out of the data. The result was we still kill each other in random acts of insanity, jealousy, malfeasance as we did 400 years ago It’s the nation state you benefit from brining the real carnage I don’t see you protesting it More like living high off it You’re in a bubble mate
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  As generally used, the term "deep state" refers to career officials acting in opposition to the democratically-elected leadership of a country. In this case, the elected officials are completely in accord with the desires of the security/intelligence agencies.
m0llusk 7y ago
No. Their goal is to protect the children. They don't understand technology and do not care how many enterprises are destroyed by their clumsy fumbling. Stop trying to reframe stupidity as conspiracy.
- notmarkus 7y ago
  "Conspiracy" makes it sound like the US government hasn't been building the largest spying apparatus in history over the past 2 decades. Reality says otherwise.
  - zl10q2 7y ago
    And Feinstein has always been on the side of surveillance, except of course when she is affected: https://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/13/politics/feinstein-cia-snooping-hypocrisy/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/13/politics/feinstein-cia-sn...
- einpoklum 7y ago
  If Congress were serious about "protecting children", there are many other things they would do before focusing on the boogeyman of online pedophilia. I already mentioned child health care in another comment; you could also think of social/public housing for destitute parents of children; food security, which _is_ a problem in the US (and the programs are being cut); minimum wage increase; free child-care for working parents etc. Has Senator Feinstein been promoting any of this?
  - ac29 7y ago
    Those are all massively expensive ideas, EARN it isnt. Just because these senators haven't been able to enact some of your other ideas doesn't mean they aren't serious about protecting children. At least some of the senators behind EARN it are in favor of expanding social welfare programs [0] - its just politically difficult to get traction on new laws with huge costs attached to them. [0] https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/ https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/
paypalcust83 7y ago
Yeap. Clipper chip 2.0. The ruling elite doesn't want us "plebs" to have any privacy in order to make mass surveillance easier and to be able to exploit pilfered details to silence and defeat their enemies. It strikes me as inverted totalitarianism about to give way to direct totalitarianism. Think of the children fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
- jekeiko838 7y ago
  You can have privacy just fine as a pleb. Run your stuff, connect friends This impacts businesses Since when are businesses free from government inspection when they impact society as a whole You spoiled whiners think reality owes you some idealized vacuum to exist L O L My take: you all ignore the political system as if it exists by some mistake and get caught unawares by it Society will always claim a right to peak into areas society plainly announces it intends to regulate Get over it You can’t stop humans at scale. You’re a handful of 7 billion. Statistically every user of this site is meaningless to those billions QQ

by ohazi 7y ago

etrabroline 7y ago

>Yes. Their goal is to nuke encryption Who is "they"? Are you talking about the deep state? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deep_state https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deep_state > A large group of people, typically members of government agencies and the military, believed to have long-lasting political influence that is difficult for an administration voted into power to counter. [from 1990s]

neltnerb 7y ago
United States law enforcement doesn't have the greatest track record of not blackmailing people. Or not shooting the wrong person and their dog for good measure. If you want to call the FBI, NSA, and CIA the "deep state" go ahead. They have real names though and aren't secretive about their desire to make (end to end) encryption illegal.
- etrabroline 7y ago
  While the deep state as a scholarly concept does not require secrecy, this bill certainly uses deception to manipulate the public, and did not originate with Representative Feinstein's local constituency as evidenced by the overwhelming opposition. >A deep state can also take the form of entrenched career civil servants acting in a non-conspiratorial discretionary manner to further their agency mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state The question I wish would be asked is "should the deep state (CIA, NSA etc) be influencing the legislative process to the point of overriding the concerns of voters?" This is pretty funny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#Differences_from_scholarly_understanding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#Differences_from_sc...
- jekeiko838 7y ago
  Humanity does not have the best track record of not abusing people Wrapping it in nation state theatricality is asinine A while back there was a paper that relied on newly recovered census records found in old rural European churches. This helped fill in gaps in a timeline of who died from what causes, etc Death attributed to fallout of nation state terrorism was normalized out of the data. The result was we still kill each other in random acts of insanity, jealousy, malfeasance as we did 400 years ago It’s the nation state you benefit from brining the real carnage I don’t see you protesting it More like living high off it You’re in a bubble mate
ForHackernews 7y ago
As generally used, the term "deep state" refers to career officials acting in opposition to the democratically-elected leadership of a country. In this case, the elected officials are completely in accord with the desires of the security/intelligence agencies.

m0llusk 7y ago

No. Their goal is to protect the children. They don't understand technology and do not care how many enterprises are destroyed by their clumsy fumbling. Stop trying to reframe stupidity as conspiracy.

notmarkus 7y ago
"Conspiracy" makes it sound like the US government hasn't been building the largest spying apparatus in history over the past 2 decades. Reality says otherwise.
- zl10q2 7y ago
  And Feinstein has always been on the side of surveillance, except of course when she is affected: https://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/13/politics/feinstein-cia-snooping-hypocrisy/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/13/politics/feinstein-cia-sn...
einpoklum 7y ago
If Congress were serious about "protecting children", there are many other things they would do before focusing on the boogeyman of online pedophilia. I already mentioned child health care in another comment; you could also think of social/public housing for destitute parents of children; food security, which _is_ a problem in the US (and the programs are being cut); minimum wage increase; free child-care for working parents etc. Has Senator Feinstein been promoting any of this?
- ac29 7y ago
  Those are all massively expensive ideas, EARN it isnt. Just because these senators haven't been able to enact some of your other ideas doesn't mean they aren't serious about protecting children. At least some of the senators behind EARN it are in favor of expanding social welfare programs [0] - its just politically difficult to get traction on new laws with huge costs attached to them. [0] https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/ https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/

paypalcust83 7y ago

Yeap. Clipper chip 2.0. The ruling elite doesn't want us "plebs" to have any privacy in order to make mass surveillance easier and to be able to exploit pilfered details to silence and defeat their enemies. It strikes me as inverted totalitarianism about to give way to direct totalitarianism. Think of the children fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

jekeiko838 7y ago
You can have privacy just fine as a pleb. Run your stuff, connect friends This impacts businesses Since when are businesses free from government inspection when they impact society as a whole You spoiled whiners think reality owes you some idealized vacuum to exist L O L My take: you all ignore the political system as if it exists by some mistake and get caught unawares by it Society will always claim a right to peak into areas society plainly announces it intends to regulate Get over it You can’t stop humans at scale. You’re a handful of 7 billion. Statistically every user of this site is meaningless to those billions QQ