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If anyone is wondering why we have vaccines....Well we are living in a time where the global population lacks a vaccine and has no immunity to one single diseas

If anyone is wondering why we have vaccines....Well we are living in a time where the global population lacks a vaccine and has no immunity to one single disease. One. How's that working out for you? So yeah, let's all not get vaccinated, then we can experience this for like, lots and lots of diseases. Maybe each one "only" kills 1-2% of the population... yay! Seriously though - if this doesn't kill the anti-vax moment well, then I guess there's no vaccine, or cure, for being stupid.

secstate 7y ago
I don't know the best forum for suggesting something like this without sounding like a monster, but to play devil's advocate for a moment: What do the SE Asian countries that responded well to Covid-19 have in common? A: They were more severely impacted by outbreaks of other influenza/coronavirus diseases in the last 20 years. Is there any benefit to a population having had experience responding to outbreak occasionally so they have the ability to respond in situations like we find ourselves now? There are physicians working who've never actually encountered outbreaks of contagions before. There are politicians who have no clue what it means to lead in a time of contagion. Is it possible that in our pursuit of avoiding suffering in the near-term we set ourselves up for more and greater suffering in the future? Please, for the love of god, vaccinate yourself and encourage your loved ones to be vaccinated. And now I await the flood of downvotes because I dared to bring up an untouchable discussion point on hacker news.
- Ace17 7y ago
  Are you suggesting that regularly being impacted by outbreaks is, on average, beneficial to a population? This seems far fetched. There certainly are ways to teach the correct response to an outbreak, other than killing 1% of the population.
Nextgrid 7y ago
And yet we already have crazies speaking against coronavirus vaccines that don’t even exist yet, with a little bit of mind control and 5G-related nonsense for good measure.
gerland 7y ago
People are more willing to acuse elites about some nefarious play, than to "believe" in vaccines. Our cranium has been shrinking for the last 10k years for a reason. We eliminated individual level natrual selection to a large degree. Instead, one idiot can bring down a whole population. In some way it all boils down to responsibility and proto-christianity in the form of humanism and progressivism. We are willing to risk the future of our species, just to not have to make hard decisions. It's make believe that the suffering does not exist if I can't see it and that I'm smarter than everybody else, therefore my actions cannot produce negative effects. I'm a part of the problem and so are you.
duckMuppet 7y ago
Well if you vaccinate yourself I'm not sure why you're worried about if and who else isn't vaccinated. I'm guessing you're probably more of the religious fundamentalist of the secular humanist faith, because you're certainly more concerned with worldview than data or fact. But authoritarians will authoritarian i suppose.
- AlisdairO 7y ago
  Because not everyone who gets vaccinated gets immunity. So those who don't vaccinate also risk the health of those people.
ajkdhcb2 7y ago
If anyone's wondering why we have anti-vaxxers... Well, we are living in a time when bodies that could abuse them have proven time and time again that they deserve absolutely zero trust. The root cause is a completely rational crisis of faith in institutions. Regardless of the essential nature of vaccines, given the track record of modern governments you would have to be brain-dead to let them inject substances into the whole population without trepidation. It may easily be more stupid to not even question the system than to be overly paranoid.
- floor2 7y ago
  Why focus on vaccines if your fear is government conspiracy? Couldn't these same nefarious people be putting 'substances' into the water you drink, the food you eat, the air you breathe, the pills you take, the clothes you wear, the surfaces you touch, etc? By your logic, I don't see why an anti-vaxxer would ever go to the doctor at all. Why would you trust the pills, the surgery, the diagnostic imaging, the blood draws etc but then draw the line at the vaccine injection?
  - ajkdhcb2 7y ago
    Food and water supply are important too, who said you can only ¨focus¨ on vaccines? I don't really understand your argument. The controversy with fluoride where some countries are totally against it while others love it shows water is important. Anyway... None of those things you list are comparable to vaccines - something essential that is systematically, uniformly applied over the population with data kept on each individual. The science is complicated and the supply chain is fragile to being compromised. You can grow your own food and have access to tons of different water supplies, aren't forced to take pills, etc. Not many people have the capacity to do large, long term studies on the vaccine and verify that the contents of the injection are what they should be. Empirically it's easy to see that abuse is a real danger. I assume everyone knows how the US government used fake vaccines to get 'terrorist DNA' (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vacci...). There are many disturbing stories, usually in undeveloped countries. Other dystopian shit like barcoding people with vaccination data, really seems a small step away from injecting a chip: https://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218 https://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218. If you make vaccines mandatory, it doesn't farfetched to me that governments will try to move toward these things. You can't gather DNA or chip people with food, water, pills, etc

secstate 7y ago

I don't know the best forum for suggesting something like this without sounding like a monster, but to play devil's advocate for a moment: What do the SE Asian countries that responded well to Covid-19 have in common? A: They were more severely impacted by outbreaks of other influenza/coronavirus diseases in the last 20 years. Is there any benefit to a population having had experience responding to outbreak occasionally so they have the ability to respond in situations like we find ourselves now? There are physicians working who've never actually encountered outbreaks of contagions before. There are politicians who have no clue what it means to lead in a time of contagion. Is it possible that in our pursuit of avoiding suffering in the near-term we set ourselves up for more and greater suffering in the future? Please, for the love of god, vaccinate yourself and encourage your loved ones to be vaccinated. And now I await the flood of downvotes because I dared to bring up an untouchable discussion point on hacker news.

Ace17 7y ago
Are you suggesting that regularly being impacted by outbreaks is, on average, beneficial to a population? This seems far fetched. There certainly are ways to teach the correct response to an outbreak, other than killing 1% of the population.

Nextgrid 7y ago

And yet we already have crazies speaking against coronavirus vaccines that don’t even exist yet, with a little bit of mind control and 5G-related nonsense for good measure.

gerland 7y ago

People are more willing to acuse elites about some nefarious play, than to "believe" in vaccines. Our cranium has been shrinking for the last 10k years for a reason. We eliminated individual level natrual selection to a large degree. Instead, one idiot can bring down a whole population. In some way it all boils down to responsibility and proto-christianity in the form of humanism and progressivism. We are willing to risk the future of our species, just to not have to make hard decisions. It's make believe that the suffering does not exist if I can't see it and that I'm smarter than everybody else, therefore my actions cannot produce negative effects. I'm a part of the problem and so are you.

duckMuppet 7y ago

Well if you vaccinate yourself I'm not sure why you're worried about if and who else isn't vaccinated. I'm guessing you're probably more of the religious fundamentalist of the secular humanist faith, because you're certainly more concerned with worldview than data or fact. But authoritarians will authoritarian i suppose.

AlisdairO 7y ago
Because not everyone who gets vaccinated gets immunity. So those who don't vaccinate also risk the health of those people.

ajkdhcb2 7y ago

If anyone's wondering why we have anti-vaxxers... Well, we are living in a time when bodies that could abuse them have proven time and time again that they deserve absolutely zero trust. The root cause is a completely rational crisis of faith in institutions. Regardless of the essential nature of vaccines, given the track record of modern governments you would have to be brain-dead to let them inject substances into the whole population without trepidation. It may easily be more stupid to not even question the system than to be overly paranoid.

floor2 7y ago
Why focus on vaccines if your fear is government conspiracy? Couldn't these same nefarious people be putting 'substances' into the water you drink, the food you eat, the air you breathe, the pills you take, the clothes you wear, the surfaces you touch, etc? By your logic, I don't see why an anti-vaxxer would ever go to the doctor at all. Why would you trust the pills, the surgery, the diagnostic imaging, the blood draws etc but then draw the line at the vaccine injection?
- ajkdhcb2 7y ago
  Food and water supply are important too, who said you can only ¨focus¨ on vaccines? I don't really understand your argument. The controversy with fluoride where some countries are totally against it while others love it shows water is important. Anyway... None of those things you list are comparable to vaccines - something essential that is systematically, uniformly applied over the population with data kept on each individual. The science is complicated and the supply chain is fragile to being compromised. You can grow your own food and have access to tons of different water supplies, aren't forced to take pills, etc. Not many people have the capacity to do large, long term studies on the vaccine and verify that the contents of the injection are what they should be. Empirically it's easy to see that abuse is a real danger. I assume everyone knows how the US government used fake vaccines to get 'terrorist DNA' (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vacci...). There are many disturbing stories, usually in undeveloped countries. Other dystopian shit like barcoding people with vaccination data, really seems a small step away from injecting a chip: https://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218 https://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218. If you make vaccines mandatory, it doesn't farfetched to me that governments will try to move toward these things. You can't gather DNA or chip people with food, water, pills, etc