6 ms·

This PR statement unfortunately fails to address the knock-on effects to the CentOS project that this will have.

by flyt 16y ago

flink 16y ago
It was discussed in the CentOS forums, though: https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29147&start=280 https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=... To quote the forum thread: The CentOS kernel is just a rebuild, so there is no problem there. In the case of the centosplus kernel, because it may add patches, some extra steps might be needed. But again, that is not a major issue. Disclosure: I do work for Red Hat, but not on RHEL. Just posting info I saw earlier.
bernardwilson 16y ago
Would it not be possible to compute what patches have been applied? I'd guess for many patches it'd be trivially easy to determine if they were in or out; for the rest a brute-force search could be done...
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  "for the rest a brute-force search could be done..." Huhwhat? Brute force: A + B + C = D, where D and A are known.
  - pyre 16y ago
    I'm assuming the parent was talking about publicly available patches, not internally developed Red Hat ones. In that case, you could determine B and C out of a list of possible values by brute-forcing.
  - bernardwilson 16y ago
    No, some of Bs will be known as they're public patches. the remaining aggregate of C would be 'redhat patch to 2.6.x-y'.
nas 16y ago
CentOS doesn't give a shit, they just build the rpm. This is meant to frustrate outfits like Oracle, where they mix and match patches to produce a Red Hat+ kernel (a least, so Red Hat feels). The thing is, Red Hat is free to grab Oracles changes and incorporate them back. Tit for tat and all that. This policy change surely must have come from upper management. Real programmers know it is no serious problem for Oracle, only an annoyance for everyone else. It is also very much against the spirit of the GPL. I respect Red Hat for all the open source work they do but this change is lame. Piss a bunch of your most loyal customers and advocates off for no real gain. Sounds like a great plan.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  "Red Hat is free to grab Oracles changes and incorporate them back." Oracle does jack shit for Open Source software, including the Linux kernel. There is nothing useful for Red Hat to incorporate back from the Oracle kernels. This is clearly a move to counter Oracle, and I can't blame them. Oracle has more money than god, and a willingness to do anything to win. They're rebuilding RHEL, rebranding it, and extracting money from their sizable corporate userbase for it...money that probably ought to be going to the folks who actually built the distribution, and the people who build the underlying software (Red Hat contributes more to Linux and Open Source than any company of its size, by a significant margin; Oracle contributes effectively nothing, in comparison). That may be changing...Oracle has hired on at least a couple of reasonably well-known kernel developers (Chris Mason, for one). But, for now, Oracle is leveraging the development work of Red Hat far more than Red Hat could possibly leverage anything out of Oracle. Oracle just isn't a team player in this regard, and it's not built into their culture to become a team player, as far as I can tell.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - nas 16y ago
    I don't follow the logic. If Oracle does "jack shit" then how how does this monolithic patch inconvenience them in any great way? Also, with their money I'm sure they can find a way to split apart the patch again (either via Red Hat's web interface or by brute force). I guess I'm not management material because this move makes no sense.

This PR statement unfortunately fails to address the knock-on effects to the CentOS project that this will have.

by flyt 16y ago

This PR statement unfortunately fails to address the knock-on effects to the CentOS project that this will have.

flink 16y ago

It was discussed in the CentOS forums, though: https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29147&start=280 https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=... To quote the forum thread: The CentOS kernel is just a rebuild, so there is no problem there. In the case of the centosplus kernel, because it may add patches, some extra steps might be needed. But again, that is not a major issue. Disclosure: I do work for Red Hat, but not on RHEL. Just posting info I saw earlier.

bernardwilson 16y ago

Would it not be possible to compute what patches have been applied? I'd guess for many patches it'd be trivially easy to determine if they were in or out; for the rest a brute-force search could be done...

burgerbrain 16y ago
"for the rest a brute-force search could be done..." Huhwhat? Brute force: A + B + C = D, where D and A are known.
- pyre 16y ago
  I'm assuming the parent was talking about publicly available patches, not internally developed Red Hat ones. In that case, you could determine B and C out of a list of possible values by brute-forcing.
- bernardwilson 16y ago
  No, some of Bs will be known as they're public patches. the remaining aggregate of C would be 'redhat patch to 2.6.x-y'.

nas 16y ago

CentOS doesn't give a shit, they just build the rpm. This is meant to frustrate outfits like Oracle, where they mix and match patches to produce a Red Hat+ kernel (a least, so Red Hat feels). The thing is, Red Hat is free to grab Oracles changes and incorporate them back. Tit for tat and all that. This policy change surely must have come from upper management. Real programmers know it is no serious problem for Oracle, only an annoyance for everyone else. It is also very much against the spirit of the GPL. I respect Red Hat for all the open source work they do but this change is lame. Piss a bunch of your most loyal customers and advocates off for no real gain. Sounds like a great plan.

SwellJoe 16y ago
"Red Hat is free to grab Oracles changes and incorporate them back." Oracle does jack shit for Open Source software, including the Linux kernel. There is nothing useful for Red Hat to incorporate back from the Oracle kernels. This is clearly a move to counter Oracle, and I can't blame them. Oracle has more money than god, and a willingness to do anything to win. They're rebuilding RHEL, rebranding it, and extracting money from their sizable corporate userbase for it...money that probably ought to be going to the folks who actually built the distribution, and the people who build the underlying software (Red Hat contributes more to Linux and Open Source than any company of its size, by a significant margin; Oracle contributes effectively nothing, in comparison). That may be changing...Oracle has hired on at least a couple of reasonably well-known kernel developers (Chris Mason, for one). But, for now, Oracle is leveraging the development work of Red Hat far more than Red Hat could possibly leverage anything out of Oracle. Oracle just isn't a team player in this regard, and it's not built into their culture to become a team player, as far as I can tell.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- nas 16y ago
  I don't follow the logic. If Oracle does "jack shit" then how how does this monolithic patch inconvenience them in any great way? Also, with their money I'm sure they can find a way to split apart the patch again (either via Red Hat's web interface or by brute force). I guess I'm not management material because this move makes no sense.