5 ms·

> This could be a boon to scifi plots But can they outgrow the trope of every alien being a human-in-a-mask?

by Razengan 7y ago

azernik 7y ago
Not until CGI aliens with non-humanoid body plans become cheaper than masks on human actors.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  It's the relatability to the audience that mandates they have human faces. ... because humans can only interpret the facial expressions and emotions of other human faces. Star Trek was never meant to be Sci-fi so much as soap opera in space.
  - outworlder 7y ago
    Counter-example: https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Yaphit https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Yaphit
    - karlshea 7y ago
      I don't really think that's a counter-example, the face and body animations are all very human-like.
  - azernik 7y ago
    Farscape did pretty well with having relatable characters played by puppets.
    - simcop2387 7y ago
      I'd agree, but the faces of all the regular characters were very human-esque. Even Pilot's face was puppetted to react vaguely human.
      - azernik 7y ago
        Still a very big departure from humans with masks.
    - DonHopkins 7y ago
      Not just puppets but muppets! https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Farscape https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Farscape
  - Razengan 7y ago
    > because humans can only interpret the facial expressions and emotions of other human faces. Arrival was pretty good in showing actually alien aliens (while falling into the trope of godlike aliens). Watch some octopus videos. You may get a sense of a certain connection, empathy, between sentients that transcends our physical forms.
  - ldng 7y ago
    Star Trek was ever meant to be Sci-fi (search how Roddenberry and Asimov became friend). Soap opera in space is what CBS want it to become because it is so mush easier to write for (see Kurtzman-verse).
  - Insanity 7y ago
    Maybe, but in animated things (like rick and morty) they, occasionally, have aliens that are vaguely essentially anthropomorphic animals and give those expressions. So it's not entirely.. human. My point being that we can have the expressions of a human face on a non-human face
    - Razengan 7y ago
      > My point being that we can have the expressions of a human face on a non-human face To bring up the example of the octopus again, you can still get some sense of "expression" like anger etc. when they change their skin colors, without having a relatable face at all. Or something more common: Dogs wagging their tails, cats pointing their ears, and so on.
      - koheripbal 7y ago
        Dogs and cats only work for us because we're already so familiar with those.
- remarkEon 7y ago
  Aren't we already there?
BLKNSLVR 7y ago
The central "alien" in the novel Blindsight (by Peter Watts) is, quite specifically, not this human-in-a-mask trope. One of the key points I remember (possibly not-quite-accurately) is that the various attempts that humanity makes to communicate with the alien could be construed by the alien to be attacks: bombarding it with the kinds of signals that we use to communicate. It's a memorable point, making it plain that normality in our sphere of experience is something that's evolved through many needles' eyes over millions of years. Different human cultures can't even relate to each other very well, and we share 5-nines of that evolutionary history.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Yes! This! Fundamental 'human' values are likely entirely at odds with any alien life morality we ever encounter. Thou Shall Not Kill? What about an amoebic life-form that honors its ancestors by absorbing their protoplasm, thus retaining their memories? Honor Thy Father And Mother? An insectoid race may become adult by the brood attacking, killing and eating their parent colony thus proving their fitness. Thou Shall Not Steal? That one's easy: what if property ownership is an ideal unique to territorial monkey-troop creatures with strong attraction to bling (us)? Sharing tools and food may be fundamental to every other successful race in the galaxy, humans being some aberrant race of moral deviants that prosper despite all logic to the contrary.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Add to that: the speed of interaction. Even on Earth we have everything from Sloth to Hummingbird. How will we get along with Hummingbird aliens? Aliens that move and think at the speed of a Giant Sequoia? Even a tiny mismatch could be disastrous. What if they perceived the world only slightly faster? We would speak at the very low end of their perception; our flickering lights and video images would drive them mad. We would appear slow and stupid in every personal interaction.
    - BLKNSLVR 7y ago
      Trees see the world as we see time-lapse photography. There's a line from a Terry Pratchett (I think) book that says something like "The trees wondering who keeps switching the lights on and off". (I can't find the actual darn quote). It's poetic. Our time scale is trivial in the scope of the universe, whilst quantum time scales are trivial to ours.

> This could be a boon to scifi plots But can they outgrow the trope of every alien being a human-in-a-mask?

azernik 7y ago

Not until CGI aliens with non-humanoid body plans become cheaper than masks on human actors.

koheripbal 7y ago
It's the relatability to the audience that mandates they have human faces. ... because humans can only interpret the facial expressions and emotions of other human faces. Star Trek was never meant to be Sci-fi so much as soap opera in space.
- outworlder 7y ago
  Counter-example: https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Yaphit https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Yaphit
  - karlshea 7y ago
    I don't really think that's a counter-example, the face and body animations are all very human-like.
- azernik 7y ago
  Farscape did pretty well with having relatable characters played by puppets.
  - simcop2387 7y ago
    I'd agree, but the faces of all the regular characters were very human-esque. Even Pilot's face was puppetted to react vaguely human.
    - azernik 7y ago
      Still a very big departure from humans with masks.
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    Not just puppets but muppets! https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Farscape https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Farscape
- Razengan 7y ago
  > because humans can only interpret the facial expressions and emotions of other human faces. Arrival was pretty good in showing actually alien aliens (while falling into the trope of godlike aliens). Watch some octopus videos. You may get a sense of a certain connection, empathy, between sentients that transcends our physical forms.
- ldng 7y ago
  Star Trek was ever meant to be Sci-fi (search how Roddenberry and Asimov became friend). Soap opera in space is what CBS want it to become because it is so mush easier to write for (see Kurtzman-verse).
- Insanity 7y ago
  Maybe, but in animated things (like rick and morty) they, occasionally, have aliens that are vaguely essentially anthropomorphic animals and give those expressions. So it's not entirely.. human. My point being that we can have the expressions of a human face on a non-human face
  - Razengan 7y ago
    > My point being that we can have the expressions of a human face on a non-human face To bring up the example of the octopus again, you can still get some sense of "expression" like anger etc. when they change their skin colors, without having a relatable face at all. Or something more common: Dogs wagging their tails, cats pointing their ears, and so on.
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      Dogs and cats only work for us because we're already so familiar with those.
remarkEon 7y ago
Aren't we already there?

BLKNSLVR 7y ago

The central "alien" in the novel Blindsight (by Peter Watts) is, quite specifically, not this human-in-a-mask trope. One of the key points I remember (possibly not-quite-accurately) is that the various attempts that humanity makes to communicate with the alien could be construed by the alien to be attacks: bombarding it with the kinds of signals that we use to communicate. It's a memorable point, making it plain that normality in our sphere of experience is something that's evolved through many needles' eyes over millions of years. Different human cultures can't even relate to each other very well, and we share 5-nines of that evolutionary history.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Yes! This! Fundamental 'human' values are likely entirely at odds with any alien life morality we ever encounter. Thou Shall Not Kill? What about an amoebic life-form that honors its ancestors by absorbing their protoplasm, thus retaining their memories? Honor Thy Father And Mother? An insectoid race may become adult by the brood attacking, killing and eating their parent colony thus proving their fitness. Thou Shall Not Steal? That one's easy: what if property ownership is an ideal unique to territorial monkey-troop creatures with strong attraction to bling (us)? Sharing tools and food may be fundamental to every other successful race in the galaxy, humans being some aberrant race of moral deviants that prosper despite all logic to the contrary.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Add to that: the speed of interaction. Even on Earth we have everything from Sloth to Hummingbird. How will we get along with Hummingbird aliens? Aliens that move and think at the speed of a Giant Sequoia? Even a tiny mismatch could be disastrous. What if they perceived the world only slightly faster? We would speak at the very low end of their perception; our flickering lights and video images would drive them mad. We would appear slow and stupid in every personal interaction.
  - BLKNSLVR 7y ago
    Trees see the world as we see time-lapse photography. There's a line from a Terry Pratchett (I think) book that says something like "The trees wondering who keeps switching the lights on and off". (I can't find the actual darn quote). It's poetic. Our time scale is trivial in the scope of the universe, whilst quantum time scales are trivial to ours.