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Wouldn't that mean that a vaccine is close to impossible? My layman understanding is that a vaccine relies on the body creating antibodies.

by koyote 7y ago

carey 7y ago
It’s possible and desirable for a vaccine to stimulate antibody production where a “natural” infection would not, which is one of the things that will be tested during their development. An extreme example is infection with the tetanus-causing bacterium clostridium tetani, which doesn’t provide natural immunity at all.
eindiran 7y ago
A known failure mode of vaccines is if the person who is being vaccinated lacks the right B cells for creating antibodies matching the antigens on the surface of a pathogen. If the B cells a person has lack the right B Cell receptors, they can't generate the correct antibody response to an antigen, because they can't bind with/identify an antigen in the first place. Additionally, they may lack a sufficient number of antigen naive T cells, which haven't yet become differentiated as T memory cells and effector T cells. But that doesn't mean that it is impossible to create a vaccine: this problem exists already for successful vaccines. For example, the Hepatitis B vaccine has a relatively high failure rate, but is still provides immunity 90+% of the time. It just means that some smallish percentage of the people you vaccinate aren't actually contributing to population immunity. See below for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760154/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760154/ --> this one is particularly good. A lot of good info in here on how vaccination and "memory" interact. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X02004073 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X0... EDIT: this one covers the major routes of vaccination failure --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962729/#!po=60.7143 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962729/#!po=60...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Wouldn't that mean that a vaccine is close to impossible? My layman understanding is that a vaccine relies on the body creating antibodies.

by koyote 7y ago

Wouldn't that mean that a vaccine is close to impossible? My layman understanding is that a vaccine relies on the body creating antibodies.

carey 7y ago

It’s possible and desirable for a vaccine to stimulate antibody production where a “natural” infection would not, which is one of the things that will be tested during their development. An extreme example is infection with the tetanus-causing bacterium clostridium tetani, which doesn’t provide natural immunity at all.

eindiran 7y ago

A known failure mode of vaccines is if the person who is being vaccinated lacks the right B cells for creating antibodies matching the antigens on the surface of a pathogen. If the B cells a person has lack the right B Cell receptors, they can't generate the correct antibody response to an antigen, because they can't bind with/identify an antigen in the first place. Additionally, they may lack a sufficient number of antigen naive T cells, which haven't yet become differentiated as T memory cells and effector T cells. But that doesn't mean that it is impossible to create a vaccine: this problem exists already for successful vaccines. For example, the Hepatitis B vaccine has a relatively high failure rate, but is still provides immunity 90+% of the time. It just means that some smallish percentage of the people you vaccinate aren't actually contributing to population immunity. See below for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760154/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760154/ --> this one is particularly good. A lot of good info in here on how vaccination and "memory" interact. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X02004073 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X0... EDIT: this one covers the major routes of vaccination failure --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962729/#!po=60.7143 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962729/#!po=60...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]