7 ms·

Why not just get rid of built-in batteries entirely? Not only does it lead to unethical business practices (linking battery life to hardware performance), but i

by jb775 7y ago

Why not just get rid of built-in batteries entirely? Not only does it lead to unethical business practices (linking battery life to hardware performance), but it facilitates a privacy nightmare.

KCUOJJQJ 7y ago
If I could just remove and replace a battery then I wouldn't have to give my laptop to someone else. I always put in a separately bought SSD in a laptop, so that I am able to remove my data in case of a (warranty) repair by someone else who doesn't do the repair in front of me.
lilyball 7y ago
> Why not just get rid of built-in batteries entirely Built-in batteries allow for custom battery shapes that increase battery life or allow for thinner computers at the same battery life. They increase laptop durability by not requiring a removable battery cover. They allow for putting other components on top of the battery as well to better take advantage of the space inside the enclosure. > it facilitates a privacy nightmare How does it do that?
- jb775 7y ago
  > How does it do that? If I remove my laptop battery, I know no one can tap into my hardware covertly. E.g. turn on the microphone, enable bluetooth hardware to see who I'm near, enable 3G/4G hardware to track which cell towers I'm near, etc. I'd gladly deal with a battery cover on my MacBook in exchange for definite privacy. Better yet, remove the battery from inside the laptop entirely and can plug one in via USB-C port as needed.
  - lilyball 7y ago
    For such a niche use case, just stick the thing in a faraday cage bag. It doesn't matter that it has power if it can't exchange any signals with the outside world.
- KCUOJJQJ 7y ago
  >Built-in batteries allow for custom battery shapes that increase battery life or allow for thinner computers at the same battery life. Why not putting these bag shaped battery cells in a plastic case? Couldn't this case still have any shape?
  - lilyball 7y ago
    Besides wasting space, it also means the battery has to be a single monolithic entity, can't be too flat (or the case would use up the entire space the battery occupies), and can't have any components over it. Take a look at this image: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s.h.... It comes from the iFixit MacBook Pro 15" Touch Bar Teardown (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+Teardown/73395 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Ba...) It's 6 different cells, that span the entire width of the laptop. They're glued in, and they use pretty much every bit of space they can. There's also a ribbon cable going over them, which I believe is the trackpad cable.
kube-system 7y ago
Built-in batteries can be replaceable. Modular batteries can have firmware, and can still be attached to systems that reduce current draw when the battery health diminishes... these are not exclusive or required features of internal batteries. And reducing current draw to prevent voltage sags is an engineering feature to compensate for the limits of physical science, not an arbitrary business decision. There are alternative solutions, like not booting at all, or letting the system crash. Those are not necessarily good solutions.
leetcrew 7y ago
the built-in battery is what makes an "ultrabook" possible. lenovo still makes laptops with removable batteries if you really want such a device. consumer choice is not really the hallmark of the apple brand.
- jb775 7y ago
  how is it that an ultrabook is not "possible" unless it has a battery that cannot be easily removed?
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    check out this teardown of the new 16" macbook pro: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Teardown/128106 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Tea... everything inside the chassis that isnt pcb, heatpipe, or fan is part of the battery pack. it takes up almost all the otherwise unused space inside the device. how would you design a battery door for this chassis that doesn't decrease the size of the battery or make the whole thing much bigger?
    - KCUOJJQJ 7y ago
      What if the laptop was hollow where the battery cells are. And what if something that looks similar to the Nokia 5165 battery would be put into this place. The battery would contain the same bag shaped cells.
      - leetcrew 7y ago
        you can't just expose a package like that to the user. user-removable batteries need to have a much sturdier (ie, thicker and heavier) package to prevent damage to the cells (major fire hazard). probably the chassis itself needs an additional layer of plastic to protect the components that would be exposed when the battery is removed. on top of all that, you need a robust latching mechanism that can withstand clumsy users removing and reinserting the battery over and over again. the end result is a much thicker and heavier device.

by jb775 7y ago

Why not just get rid of built-in batteries entirely? Not only does it lead to unethical business practices (linking battery life to hardware performance), but it facilitates a privacy nightmare.

KCUOJJQJ 7y ago

If I could just remove and replace a battery then I wouldn't have to give my laptop to someone else. I always put in a separately bought SSD in a laptop, so that I am able to remove my data in case of a (warranty) repair by someone else who doesn't do the repair in front of me.

lilyball 7y ago

> Why not just get rid of built-in batteries entirely Built-in batteries allow for custom battery shapes that increase battery life or allow for thinner computers at the same battery life. They increase laptop durability by not requiring a removable battery cover. They allow for putting other components on top of the battery as well to better take advantage of the space inside the enclosure. > it facilitates a privacy nightmare How does it do that?

jb775 7y ago
> How does it do that? If I remove my laptop battery, I know no one can tap into my hardware covertly. E.g. turn on the microphone, enable bluetooth hardware to see who I'm near, enable 3G/4G hardware to track which cell towers I'm near, etc. I'd gladly deal with a battery cover on my MacBook in exchange for definite privacy. Better yet, remove the battery from inside the laptop entirely and can plug one in via USB-C port as needed.
- lilyball 7y ago
  For such a niche use case, just stick the thing in a faraday cage bag. It doesn't matter that it has power if it can't exchange any signals with the outside world.
KCUOJJQJ 7y ago
>Built-in batteries allow for custom battery shapes that increase battery life or allow for thinner computers at the same battery life. Why not putting these bag shaped battery cells in a plastic case? Couldn't this case still have any shape?
- lilyball 7y ago
  Besides wasting space, it also means the battery has to be a single monolithic entity, can't be too flat (or the case would use up the entire space the battery occupies), and can't have any components over it. Take a look at this image: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s.h.... It comes from the iFixit MacBook Pro 15" Touch Bar Teardown (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+Teardown/73395 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Ba...) It's 6 different cells, that span the entire width of the laptop. They're glued in, and they use pretty much every bit of space they can. There's also a ribbon cable going over them, which I believe is the trackpad cable.

kube-system 7y ago

Built-in batteries can be replaceable. Modular batteries can have firmware, and can still be attached to systems that reduce current draw when the battery health diminishes... these are not exclusive or required features of internal batteries. And reducing current draw to prevent voltage sags is an engineering feature to compensate for the limits of physical science, not an arbitrary business decision. There are alternative solutions, like not booting at all, or letting the system crash. Those are not necessarily good solutions.

leetcrew 7y ago

the built-in battery is what makes an "ultrabook" possible. lenovo still makes laptops with removable batteries if you really want such a device. consumer choice is not really the hallmark of the apple brand.

jb775 7y ago
how is it that an ultrabook is not "possible" unless it has a battery that cannot be easily removed?
- leetcrew 7y ago
  check out this teardown of the new 16" macbook pro: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Teardown/128106 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Tea... everything inside the chassis that isnt pcb, heatpipe, or fan is part of the battery pack. it takes up almost all the otherwise unused space inside the device. how would you design a battery door for this chassis that doesn't decrease the size of the battery or make the whole thing much bigger?
  - KCUOJJQJ 7y ago
    What if the laptop was hollow where the battery cells are. And what if something that looks similar to the Nokia 5165 battery would be put into this place. The battery would contain the same bag shaped cells.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      you can't just expose a package like that to the user. user-removable batteries need to have a much sturdier (ie, thicker and heavier) package to prevent damage to the cells (major fire hazard). probably the chassis itself needs an additional layer of plastic to protect the components that would be exposed when the battery is removed. on top of all that, you need a robust latching mechanism that can withstand clumsy users removing and reinserting the battery over and over again. the end result is a much thicker and heavier device.