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Avoiding a transit of the United States
- bigwally 16y agoUS airports aren't really fenced off by immigration. In fact the international and domestic components are mixed. Escape from an airport is easy in the US. Once you leave an international flight you are herded straight to immigration for the fingerprinting.
- iujyhfgtrtgyhju 16y agoLike the clever way that your baggage comes off a belt that is basically open to the street. So while you spend 2hours getting through immigration your cases are just sitting there - if you are lucky there is a single old women supposedly checking baggage tags.
- lutorm 16y agoActually, no. If you come off an international flight, your baggage needs to go through customs. You can't walk in from the street and take it.
- Semiapies 16y agoAnd suddenly, I really, really miss the 90s.
- iujyhfgtrtgyhju 16y agoI don't miss the 18hour europe-far east flights with stopovers in Alaska or India because you couldn't fly over the USSR. Of course that was because the USSR was an evil empire with an out of control military, a bloated sense of it's own importance and a paranoia about foreigners.
- StavrosK 16y ago> Of course that was because the USSR was an evil empire with an out of control military, a bloated sense of it's own importance and a paranoia about foreigners. Wait, are you implying that that is now the US, or should I make that implication?
- iuguy 16y agoAs someone from a country with a long history of imperial aggression, bloated sense of self-importance and paranoia of foreigners you have to call it as you see it, and that's what the US is today. You don't have to believe me, just ask an Afghan.
- tptacek 16y agoWe sure did wreck that place up, didn't we.
- iujyhfgtrtgyhju 16y agoIt's our 3rd Afghan war - you would think we would have either got the hang of it or learned our lesson by now
- iuguy 16y agoTo be fair, we British have pretty good form on doing terrible things to Afghanistan, and it wasn't exactly a source of pleasantness when we all went in this time round. While I accept the original mission was justified for the US, I have absolutely no idea what we were doing in Iraq other than empire-building.
- middus 16y agoThe USSR in the 90s?
- jarin 16y agoWe're now international air travel's "wrong side of the tracks".
- br1 16y agoFWIW, my sister-in-law took stopped in LA bound for South Korea without a Visa and wasn't just kicked home. The US embassy ultimately got things sorted out.
- georgieporgie 16y agoAccording to the linked page, South Korea participates in the Visa Waiver Program, so it wouldn't be a problem.
- br1 16y agoSorry, I was unclear. We are from Uruguay. She was just in transit in the US.
- GFischer 16y agoGood thing. I'm from Uruguay too :) and I miss the time we were able to visit the US without a visa. There's also the time when the Pan-American games teams were stuck because the US implemented the visa just at the time they were leaving. The fact that we can't even transit is very annoying - Miami used to be a big hub for the Caribbean, and flights to Canada are more convenient through the US (I've got family in Canada, and I took the Air Canada Buenos Aires - Toronto flight even though it's more expensive than going through the US, because of the transit visa). I've never visited the US for that reason (I stood a few miles from the border in Niagara, but it made no sense to go through all that hassle and expenditure for just a day's visit)
- alextp 16y agoThe fact that transit visas are something you need to apply for, pay fees, and risk being refused (and that going into a permanent record) makes no sense for me.
- WildUtah 16y agoNote that you have to show up for an in-person interview with documentation about your job, family, and finances just to apply for a transit visa. The appointment for the interview costs $140. And the visas are frequently denied without explanation. No refunds.
- geoka9 16y agoNot to mention the incredibly detailed application that takes several hours to fill out.
- gamble 16y agoIt's because American airports stupidly don't have sterile transit, unlike practically every other country. I'm a Canadian, and when I transfer through LAX and go through customs, I pop out in the arrivals area. There's nothing to stop me from hailing a cab.
- georgieporgie 16y agoLast time I went to Japan, I connected through Vancouver airport in Canada. I had to go through Canadian customs because they don't segregate all international flights. Bizarrely, the customs guy looked at my ticket, then asked how long I intended to stay in Canada (my connecting flight was in ~2hrs). For the same reason, on return, I couldn't bring back any Japanese booze from the airport. I had to go through a second liquids and customs check at YVR.
- iujyhfgtrtgyhju 16y agoCanada does have transit lounges - but Vancouver is a bit odd. They have pre-cleared US immigration, so you have effectively 3 airside zones domestic/US/International. So if you are coming off/going to a US flight from an international one you have to go out and back in. There is a US <-> International security gate but it's not normally staffed And screw ups happen - I lost a Lufthansa bottle of champagne they gave me on board for screwing up my seat. At a change in Frankfurt the we had to be bussed from the plane to the terminal - the bus dropped us outside security and I lost the sealed Lufthansa labeled champagne to the security desk.
- jpr 16y agoFWIW, as a EU citizen the things I've heard about traveling to/from/in US have mostly made me go wtf. Perhaps it's just because I spend too much time reading about TSA etc. on reddit, but maybe not.
- alain94040 16y agoOn one hand, what your read online is greatly exaggerated. Most of the time, you show up at the airport, stand in line for 5 minutes, go through a metal detector, and that's it. Just like it's always been. On the other hand, recently (should I say this anonymously), annoyed by the extra security and machines, when a TSA agent asked me to take off my shoes and my sweater, I said fine. I went topless. After all, that's what the new machines see anyway. The look on the TSA agent's face? Ouch.
- yeahidid 16y agoBe honest, how many of you clicked his profile to find out if he was a woman?
- xuki 16y agoI dont know but I'm sure many people click after reading your comment.
- athom 16y agoNot very professional of them, I'd say.
- kalleboo 16y agoAs an EU citizen you get interrogated why you're visiting the U.S. When I was in SF for WWDC, it was easy, "I'm here for Apple's WWDC". Any other time it's been a 15 minute ordeal of explaining what computer software is exactly and how my international contractor relationship works and why I'm not going to escape into the forests and become a day laborer. Once they even asked for a bank statement. In no other countries I've traveled to (20+) have I had to explain why I'm there aside from checking a box on a paper form.
- dantheman 16y agoIf I was a foreigner I would have stopped traveling in the US, as soon as they started rendition in 90s. It was only in the 00s that the fact of being a citizen didn't really protect us from the threat of being disappeared in the US. In my not so humble opinion it's a disgrace, and that it continues to persist is even worse - It shows that no matter who is in power, this lawlessness is tolerated.
- marshray 16y agoThe world interprets the US as damage and routes around it.
- haploid 16y agoRight. That explains the infinite, insatiable lust for our Treasury bills, notes, and bonds. Until I see the world protest US actions in the only way that matters( e.g. refusing to finance our government's activities ), I will continue to laugh off the "world hates the US" babble. Stop buying our toilet paper and I'll take it seriously.
- 3pt14159 16y agoIt isn't insatiable by definition of a bid and an ask on the USD.
- haploid 16y agoAs long as auctions maintain a BTC ratio over 1.0 with short tails, the appetite is effectively insatiable, especially at the enormous rate of issuance over the last few years.
- wtn 16y ago"For the duration of QE2, the Fed has been buying 70% of all new Treasury-bond issuance, and foreigners have been buying the other 30%. When the Fed stops buying, who will step in to replace it? After all, with a $1.5 trillion budget deficit, there’s a lot of new supply coming." -- Felix Salmon, Reuters
- mistermann 16y agoExactly.
- marshray 16y agoI will continue to laugh off the "world hates the US" babble. No, my point was that the world is literally routing around the US.
- acabal 16y agoI don't blame people for not wanting even a layover in the States. We've easily become the most unwelcoming (even to citizens!) and foreigner-hostile country around, short of some backwater dictatorship. Last time I flew back from LHR->ORD I was actually scared that I'd have to go through a body scanner after landing (this a few months back, after a news story of a citizen refusing a body scan at ORD after landing from an int'l flight).
- samfoo 16y agoIt's frustrating to read things like this. If you think the US is easily the most unwelcoming country even to citizens -- to be frank -- you just haven't been through that many countries. Does flying through the US as the citizen of a non-waived-visa country suck? Yup. But it's not like the US is the only country that has these policies. The UK has a list of countries that require transit visas. The Schengen Zone has a list of countries that require transit visas. Russia does. And to add further anecdotal fuel to the fire (and counter yours): As a US citizen the worst customs I've been through is far and away the UK.
- MoreMoschops 16y agoThe U.S. does not have a list, though. The U.S. simply doesn't do sterile transit. That's (a large part of) the complaint.
- zaius 16y agoEven when eligible for a visa waiver, the process sucks. You have to register with the ESTA 72 hours before flying. You have to leave North America within 3 months, so if you're transitting to Canada or Mexico, you have to get an actual visa, otherwise you're in violation of the visa waiver.
- RK 16y agoFrom the cbp.gov website: "While CBP recommends that you apply at least 72 hours before travel, you may apply anytime prior to boarding. In most cases, a response is received within seconds of submitting an application." You have to leave North America within 3 months I know the US is powerful, but I really doubt they can require you to leave North America. I think you're reading something wrong.
- clu3 16y agoI just recently ( 3 days ago) transitted through JFK airport, NY, to Haiti on a business trip. And it wasn't that bad. Even though the transit time was 12 hours, they gave me one month, until the end of March. Plus, I was allowed to go out of the airport during this period, which I didn't expect at all. So I got out of the airport and stayed in Comfort Inn for a night before going to Haiti The only thing that pssed me off: I had to pay $5 for the trolley. No where in the world have i traveled (Britain, Finland, France, Australia, Singapore) where I have to pay for the trolley in side the airport!
- andrewjshults 16y agoAt both JFK and EWR (Newark) the air trains are also the links out to NY/NJ mass transit (LIRR/Subway from JFK and NJT from EWR). I always thought/it's been my experience they were free for intra-terminal stops and you only had to pay if you were at an end that allowed outside access. It's basically their way of increasing the price of what would otherwise be a rather cheap trip on public transit (NY Penn Station to Newark Penn Station is about $5, but to the airport is $15 even though the added distance is negligible)
- stevenbedrick 16y agoI think the parent was referring to the baggage carts ("trolleys", in Queen's English) inside the terminal itself, not the train into town.
- clu3 16y agoYep, that's what i mean, I think it's called "SmarteCarte" in JFK. Btw, i do love the air train by which you can get to the city center
- geoka9 16y agoImagine suddenly having to have a German transit visa to connect in Frankfurt. Or a Dutch visa to connect in Amsterdam. It seems ridiculous. I was really surprised to learn that I'd need a transit visa to connect in the US.
- jfoutz 16y agoThe situation in the article is embarrassing. On the flip side, the US is really big. 4 US states are larger than germany. Getting the visa sounds like a pain in the ass, but it's more like a visa for the EU, rather than member nations.
- darklajid 16y agocough The whole US of A has only less than 4 times the population (308,745,538) of Germany (81,757,600) according to Wikipedia.. Comparing USA and EU: The EU has 501,064,211 people, according to the same source. Like - 160% of the US. And, as others pointed out in this thread: Large parts of it are part of the Schengen treaty(?) and therefor rather easy for travellers. I do think you oversimplicate things here..
- jdminhbg 16y agoYou're misunderstanding a little -- he's saying that the USA is like its own Schengen Area (according to wikipedia, ~400 million). So for travelers from outside the EU, you just need one visa to enter and then you can move about freely. Similarly, you just need one US visa and you can go from NY to California freely.
- darklajid 16y agoI probably (wrongly) conflated the two parts (4 states are larger than.. vs. large area in which you can move rather freely). No offense intended and I see the point now. Thanks.
- xiaoma 16y agobig != populous
- gst 16y agoOn my last flight to the US British Airways at first didn't allow my friend to board the plane, because they told us that her name is on some watchlist. An airline employee then phoned ~30 minutes with the US department of Homeland Security and asked my friend lots of questions - and then finally allowed her to board. Needless to say that we nearly missed the flight. I can fully understand anyone who wants to avoid having a transfer at an US airport. Why risk any of those problems when you can just transfer via another country?
- iujyhfgtrtgyhju 16y agoYou don't even need to land, flying from europe to Canada you need to not be on the US no fly list and have your details (credit card, phone number type of meal) sent to the US. I think Greenland should retaliate with a $100 overflying charge
- iujyhfgtrtgyhju 16y agoThere was a British guy trapped in Toronto because he couldn't fly home to the UK after getting on the US no fly list. His crime was having converted to Islam.
- pragmatic 16y agoThis submission illustrates the decline of HN. - It invites a bunch of snarky comments. > The world interprets the US as damage and routes around it. - No solutions to problems, just complaints. - Is there a solution? - Aren't these kind of submissions better left to Reddit?
- kalleboo 16y agoI visit the Bay area yearly, and every time I make sure that my connection is in Europe and I never have to connect in the U.S. I've visited a ton of countries (including China), and the U.S. is definitely the most hostile to visit.
- codenerdz 16y agoForgive my geographic ignorance, but why would you fly through the US to transit anywhere? US is between 2 vast oceans and I just cant fathom anyone flying let say from Europe to Asia over both atlantic and pacific or from asia back. Even flights from NorthWestern Europe(UK) to South america are shorter and faster through southern european connection. LHR-MAD-Brazil. I mean, look at British Airways route map: http://www.britishairways.com/travel/routemapsflash/public/en_gb http://www.britishairways.com/travel/routemapsflash/public/e... Almost any destination in the world that is NOT the US is closer to other countries via routes that dont go over US as opposed to those that do go through the US. Im sure there are few exceptions, but still. I dont disagree that not having separation between transit and exit terminal is the suck, but how much of a problem for people whose destination is not US is it?
- WildUtah 16y agoFirstly, the Earth is a sphere, not a flat map projection like in your link. In order to fly the shortest straight distance over the curved surface of the Earth, Northern Hemisphere routes "bend" toward the poles on a flat map. The shortest routes to Central and South America from Asia or Europe often cross USA airspace or make connections in the USA. Second, the USA is economically more influential than its mere land area indicates. There are a more big international airports located in the USA than in all of Latin America or Australia/Oceania. Flights often have connections through those USA airports instead of flying direct to smaller markets. For example, there are exactly three flights between Asia and Latin America. A few times a week, Aeromexico flys between Mexico City and Narita, Japan (via Tiuana one way because of high/hot regulations). Similarly Emirates between Dubai and Sāo Paulo. And once a week there's an Aeromexico flight between Shanghai and Mexico City (also with high/hot limits). Those flights can and do charge about $500-$700 extra per passenger for the luxury of avoiding the USA transit. The usual routings used by at least 10 times more passengers every day pass through US airports on those routes.
- bootload 16y ago"... Firstly, the Earth is a sphere, ..." Technically it's what is called an "Geoid"[0] but for most purposes the description of an "oblate spheroid" [1] will do. Those "shortest straight distances" are called "great circles" or geodesic; an arc between two points on a spheroid also called a great distance. Technically, because the Earth isn't spheroidal but oblate, the shortest distance isn't quite a great circle. [2] The maps used for aeronautical navigation are "gnomonic" in projection to show great circles as straight lines. [3] [0] http://www.kartografie.nl/geometrics/reference%20surfaces/refsurf.html http://www.kartografie.nl/geometrics/reference%20surfaces/re... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblate_spheroid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblate_spheroid [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomonic_projection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomonic_projection
- aj700 16y agoThis is news?! People fly from Britain to Australia all the time. They always try to go via Singapore, Hong Kong or Dubai. They always try to avoid LA. I assumed Americans already knew they were being shunned. It's nothing to do with anti-Americanism. But, yes, "onerous" is right.
- yardie 16y agoTo be pragmatic London to Sydney via SKG, DBX, or HKG is shorter than via LAX. And since it sits on the other side of the IDL you'd be flying for 2 days rather than 28 hours.
- jemfinch 16y agoI was somewhat disappointed this wasn't talking about network transit. That would have been especially interesting.
- xiaoma 16y agoHow is this news?
- bugmenot 16y agoIt's not. It's just the redditification of HN.