8 ms·

Amazon Retools with Unusual Goal: Get Shoppers to Buy Less

44 points by prostoalex 7y ago

TekMol 7y ago
IIRC paywalled sites without workaround are not allowed on HN. The link should be changed to an alternative source. Here is one: https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/amazon-wants-customers-to-buy-less-as-demand-skyrockets/ https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/amazon-wants-customers-to-buy-... Regarding the content: Wouldn't it make more sense for Amazon to simply show products that are fulfilled by the seller directly? This way they could still make their cut but do not have to do the delivery.
- davb 7y ago
  And with more detail, including the closure of five Amazon distribution centres in France: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/amazon-closes-warehouses-in-france-tries-to-make-us-shoppers-buy-less/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/amazon-closes-wa...
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Here’s the workaround for WSJ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16906571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16906571
  - jasode 7y ago
    Fyi... the above workaround with Google/Facebook acting as referrer/redirect for the url hasn't worked in years. And especially if the browser has already visited WSJ a few times and hasn't been restarted with a fresh session. Notice in the following video that browser status bar says "Incognito" and yet the Facebook redirect still doesn't work: https://imgur.com/a/LKHW9OB https://imgur.com/a/LKHW9OB The "?mod=rsswn" also doesn't work anymore. Disabling javascript doesn't work either. Popular sites like NYTimes and WSJ do more sophisticated things than just checking cookies. My memory fails but I think the last time I looked at this, the sites sniffed HTML5 local storage or something not obvious. [I didn't downvote your comment.]
    - tomrod 7y ago
      This adtech arms race is ridiculous. The link shouldn't even resolve if they require paying customers, unless signed in.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      Huh. It worked for me just now, with this very article. The one catch is I need to go into private mode.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- lorenzhs 7y ago
  Workaround: http://archive.is/hbzHu http://archive.is/hbzHu (archived copy)
ilamont 7y ago
To lessen the burden on warehouses, Amazon has been contacting its third-party sellers and encouraging them to ship items themselves rather than through its “Fulfilled By Amazon” program, said people familiar with the matter. Sellers pay a fee to Amazon to be part of the program, and Amazon has spent years trying to expand this service. But with its delivery network taxed, the company is opting to forgo the fee in the interim, one of the people said. The fee to participate in FBA via Amazon Seller Central is $40 per month. Eliminating that fee is a drop in the bucket to most medium to large volume sellers, who now have to contend with extra shipping costs if they ship FBM (M = Merchant) or the even more expensive "Seller Fulfilled Prime" in which seller is responsible for getting the goods to customers in two days. What Amazon should be doing to encourage more FBM sales is reducing the per-item fees associated with each order, or adding other incentives. Another side effect of having sellers ship FBM are millions of orders are going through the US Post Office instead of Amazon's transport network or UPS. The USPS needs that package revenue, with junk mail down sharply and some in Washington calling for the service to be privatized (https://www.vox.com/2020/4/12/21218151/usps-bailout-privatization-amazon-trump https://www.vox.com/2020/4/12/21218151/usps-bailout-privatiz...).
- moron4hire 7y ago
  Wait, I don't understand. So sellers pay Amazon a fee to use FBA, Amazon wants to discourage FBA right now, so Amazon has removed the fee... thereby eliminating that miniscule barrier to using FBA?
  - dannyw 7y ago
    There is a small, nominal fee for FBM, Fulfilment by Merchant. This is distinct to FBA.
    - moron4hire 7y ago
      So they are dropping the FBM fee, not the FBA fee? That's not what the quoted text indicated. I can't read the article to see if the context changes the meaning.
baltimore 7y ago
I wonder if one of the ways they are trying to lessen demand is by showing over-estimated delays in shipping. I've gotten every recent order delivered much faster than estimated at the time of purchase. (Sample size about n=5)
- Kye 7y ago
  Still waiting on my desk chair to ship after 10 days with an estimate of May 4-5. It was "out of stock" when I ordered, then immediately "in stock" after. That probably has something to do with the delay.
  - sieabahlpark 7y ago
    When that happens just cancel your previous order and start a new one. Have done that a few times
    - Kye 7y ago
      I don't order often enough to justify Prime, so the wait so far isn't much worse than normal. Not being able to sit at my computer has given me some much-needed perspective on how I use it, so it's not all bad.
  - steve_adams_86 7y ago
    Likewise, I ordered some stuff with 2 day shipping about 10 days ago and it's still slated to arrive in 3 weeks. Hopefully it's a little sooner than that, because every other thing I needed for this project (including a king size mattress) shipped in under a week, and it's just sitting around unused.
- jsight 7y ago
  That seems to be the case, as most of my orders have been way ahead of schedule. I did have one random case that was estimated for a couple of weeks and did take nearly the whole amount, though. It wasn't out of stock or anything either.
- scrumbledober 7y ago
zeveb 7y ago
Why not just raise prices on non-essential products? That will decrease sales and increase profits. Everyone wins that way: the folks who need essential products win, because the bandwidth available for their needs is increased; the sellers win; Amazon wins; and people who want non-essential products and are willing to pay for them win because they can still get them. The people who want non-essential products but cannot or do not want to pay the current price do not win, but they are no worse off than being unable to buy at all.
- jefftk 7y ago
  While that would probably work, it may not be legal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging
  - dannyw 7y ago
    Is Uber surge pricing price gouging?
    - harimau777 7y ago
      I'm not certain, but I think it would only be considered price gouging if it were in response to an emergency. It might also be price gouging in response to a shortage but I think that "shortage" in that case would more mean something like "the NYC subway is completely shutdown" rather than just rush hour or after a concert ends.
    - jefftk 7y ago
      Some people think so! But price gouging is usually defined as being in response to emergencies, which a pandemic is and a sharp spike in Uber demand may (a tsunami) or may not (bars closing at 2am) be.
    - jsight 7y ago
      Unfortunately, some people tend to think so.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
Finnucane 7y ago
I've made my contribution by not ordering anything from Amazon. Though pretty much every ecommerce site of any significance is stressed to the max right now. And B&H is, as usual, closed for Passover. Still trying to support local businesses as much as I practically can.
- dominotw 7y ago
  > Still trying to support local businesses as much as I practically can. how are supply chains for local businesses. My neighborhood corner grocery story is almost empty. Not sure what is going on.
  - epistasis 7y ago
    My independent, neighborhood grocer (am almost unheard of type of business these days!) has been better stocked on the very few occasions I have gotten out. I don't have a ton of comparison points, unfortunately. For example, when it comes to dry goods like beans or flour, the small local grocer could repackage and rewrite the vast industrial size containers I'd these products, and continue selling product where the larger chain grocers must rely on their suppliers to repackage to smaller amounts.
- paypalcust83 7y ago
  I'm crossing my fingers that the two SSDs I ordered in B&H's last order window ship today because their stores are closed and the warehouses are on reduced hours. Always buy from good small businesses first (vote with your wallet). Megacorps are unfortunately a practical, but depressing, evil last resort. Btw, Instacart (YC S12) works here in Paradise, CA with a smaller chain discount grocery store! :) (Local CVS ((still listed on IC)) closed due to loss of customers, there is a Walgreens franchise in-town ((not on IC)) and CVS delivers medications by mail for free right now.) And our most recent shopper was lightning fast and a good shopper too.
  - nickvanw 7y ago
    > Always buy from good small businesses first (vote with your wallet). Megacorps are unfortunately a practical, but depressing, evil last resort. Not to be a downer, but if you're looking for _good_ businesses, B&H is likely to score no higher than Amazon by most criteria. They: - Don't pay appropriate sales tax: https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14/20964980/b-h-photo-taxes-lawsuit-new-york-state https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14/20964980/b-h-photo-taxes... - Discriminate against Hispanic workers: https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/29/us/bh-photo-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/29/us/bh-photo-lawsuit/index.htm... - Discriminate against non-Jewish employees: https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/new-lawsuit-claims-b-and-h-discriminates-against-non-jewish-employees-571983 https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/new-lawsuit-claims-b-and-h-di...
specialist 7y ago
My new power tool arrived in just its own original mfg box. Instead of being reboxed by Amazon. Maybe because of FBA? (Reviewing the order details, I can't figure it out.) Whatever the reason, woot! Less is more.
- arprocter 7y ago
  We had something back-ordered on Amazon (from before all this crazyness happened) and it eventually arrived in a Sam's Club box
  - throwanem 7y ago
    That's happened in the past with items I've ordered, as what appears to have been part of an arbitrage scheme - list items on Amazon that Walmart.com sells for less, and when you get an order, reorder it from Walmart.com with the Amazon buyer's shipping info. Every time it's happened and I've checked prices on Walmart.com, they've been ~20% lower than what I actually ended up paying. Seems like a cute little grift, all in all.
- non-entity 7y ago
  > Whatever the reason, woot! Less is more. Agreed, I'm sick of the russian nesting dolls game with amazon boxes
- bootlooped 7y ago
  I have noticed a higher frequency of this happening in the past year. I'm happy about it, there's no need to put an additional box around most items that already come in a cardboard box.
- pkaye 7y ago
  From what I read Amazon has been actively pushing manufacturers in this direction. Saves on packaging material and labor costs. They can automate even more of it.
neonate 7y ago
https://archive.md/hbzHu https://archive.md/hbzHu
cordite 7y ago
I’ve started looking to ebay and Newegg a bit more. However these days Newegg seems to be more a marketplace for Chinese sources and proxies of Chinese sources. Ebay has been okay, though sometimes they don’t even get the goods into the transport network until after it was promised to be delivered.

44 points by prostoalex 7y ago

IIRC paywalled sites without workaround are not allowed on HN. The link should be changed to an alternative source. Here is one: https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/amazon-wants-customers-to-buy-less-as-demand-skyrockets/ https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/amazon-wants-customers-to-buy-... Regarding the content: Wouldn't it make more sense for Amazon to simply show products that are fulfilled by the seller directly? This way they could still make their cut but do not have to do the delivery.

davb 7y ago
And with more detail, including the closure of five Amazon distribution centres in France: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/amazon-closes-warehouses-in-france-tries-to-make-us-shoppers-buy-less/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/amazon-closes-wa...
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Here’s the workaround for WSJ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16906571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16906571
- jasode 7y ago
  Fyi... the above workaround with Google/Facebook acting as referrer/redirect for the url hasn't worked in years. And especially if the browser has already visited WSJ a few times and hasn't been restarted with a fresh session. Notice in the following video that browser status bar says "Incognito" and yet the Facebook redirect still doesn't work: https://imgur.com/a/LKHW9OB https://imgur.com/a/LKHW9OB The "?mod=rsswn" also doesn't work anymore. Disabling javascript doesn't work either. Popular sites like NYTimes and WSJ do more sophisticated things than just checking cookies. My memory fails but I think the last time I looked at this, the sites sniffed HTML5 local storage or something not obvious. [I didn't downvote your comment.]
  - tomrod 7y ago
    This adtech arms race is ridiculous. The link shouldn't even resolve if they require paying customers, unless signed in.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Huh. It worked for me just now, with this very article. The one catch is I need to go into private mode.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
lorenzhs 7y ago
Workaround: http://archive.is/hbzHu http://archive.is/hbzHu (archived copy)

ilamont 7y ago

To lessen the burden on warehouses, Amazon has been contacting its third-party sellers and encouraging them to ship items themselves rather than through its “Fulfilled By Amazon” program, said people familiar with the matter. Sellers pay a fee to Amazon to be part of the program, and Amazon has spent years trying to expand this service. But with its delivery network taxed, the company is opting to forgo the fee in the interim, one of the people said. The fee to participate in FBA via Amazon Seller Central is $40 per month. Eliminating that fee is a drop in the bucket to most medium to large volume sellers, who now have to contend with extra shipping costs if they ship FBM (M = Merchant) or the even more expensive "Seller Fulfilled Prime" in which seller is responsible for getting the goods to customers in two days. What Amazon should be doing to encourage more FBM sales is reducing the per-item fees associated with each order, or adding other incentives. Another side effect of having sellers ship FBM are millions of orders are going through the US Post Office instead of Amazon's transport network or UPS. The USPS needs that package revenue, with junk mail down sharply and some in Washington calling for the service to be privatized (https://www.vox.com/2020/4/12/21218151/usps-bailout-privatization-amazon-trump https://www.vox.com/2020/4/12/21218151/usps-bailout-privatiz...).

moron4hire 7y ago
Wait, I don't understand. So sellers pay Amazon a fee to use FBA, Amazon wants to discourage FBA right now, so Amazon has removed the fee... thereby eliminating that miniscule barrier to using FBA?
- dannyw 7y ago
  There is a small, nominal fee for FBM, Fulfilment by Merchant. This is distinct to FBA.
  - moron4hire 7y ago
    So they are dropping the FBM fee, not the FBA fee? That's not what the quoted text indicated. I can't read the article to see if the context changes the meaning.

baltimore 7y ago

I wonder if one of the ways they are trying to lessen demand is by showing over-estimated delays in shipping. I've gotten every recent order delivered much faster than estimated at the time of purchase. (Sample size about n=5)

Kye 7y ago
Still waiting on my desk chair to ship after 10 days with an estimate of May 4-5. It was "out of stock" when I ordered, then immediately "in stock" after. That probably has something to do with the delay.
- sieabahlpark 7y ago
  When that happens just cancel your previous order and start a new one. Have done that a few times
  - Kye 7y ago
    I don't order often enough to justify Prime, so the wait so far isn't much worse than normal. Not being able to sit at my computer has given me some much-needed perspective on how I use it, so it's not all bad.
- steve_adams_86 7y ago
  Likewise, I ordered some stuff with 2 day shipping about 10 days ago and it's still slated to arrive in 3 weeks. Hopefully it's a little sooner than that, because every other thing I needed for this project (including a king size mattress) shipped in under a week, and it's just sitting around unused.
jsight 7y ago
That seems to be the case, as most of my orders have been way ahead of schedule. I did have one random case that was estimated for a couple of weeks and did take nearly the whole amount, though. It wasn't out of stock or anything either.
scrumbledober 7y ago

zeveb 7y ago

Why not just raise prices on non-essential products? That will decrease sales and increase profits. Everyone wins that way: the folks who need essential products win, because the bandwidth available for their needs is increased; the sellers win; Amazon wins; and people who want non-essential products and are willing to pay for them win because they can still get them. The people who want non-essential products but cannot or do not want to pay the current price do not win, but they are no worse off than being unable to buy at all.

jefftk 7y ago
While that would probably work, it may not be legal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging
- dannyw 7y ago
  Is Uber surge pricing price gouging?
  - harimau777 7y ago
    I'm not certain, but I think it would only be considered price gouging if it were in response to an emergency. It might also be price gouging in response to a shortage but I think that "shortage" in that case would more mean something like "the NYC subway is completely shutdown" rather than just rush hour or after a concert ends.
  - jefftk 7y ago
    Some people think so! But price gouging is usually defined as being in response to emergencies, which a pandemic is and a sharp spike in Uber demand may (a tsunami) or may not (bars closing at 2am) be.
  - jsight 7y ago
    Unfortunately, some people tend to think so.
  - leetcrew 7y ago

Finnucane 7y ago

I've made my contribution by not ordering anything from Amazon. Though pretty much every ecommerce site of any significance is stressed to the max right now. And B&H is, as usual, closed for Passover. Still trying to support local businesses as much as I practically can.

dominotw 7y ago
> Still trying to support local businesses as much as I practically can. how are supply chains for local businesses. My neighborhood corner grocery story is almost empty. Not sure what is going on.
- epistasis 7y ago
  My independent, neighborhood grocer (am almost unheard of type of business these days!) has been better stocked on the very few occasions I have gotten out. I don't have a ton of comparison points, unfortunately. For example, when it comes to dry goods like beans or flour, the small local grocer could repackage and rewrite the vast industrial size containers I'd these products, and continue selling product where the larger chain grocers must rely on their suppliers to repackage to smaller amounts.
paypalcust83 7y ago
I'm crossing my fingers that the two SSDs I ordered in B&H's last order window ship today because their stores are closed and the warehouses are on reduced hours. Always buy from good small businesses first (vote with your wallet). Megacorps are unfortunately a practical, but depressing, evil last resort. Btw, Instacart (YC S12) works here in Paradise, CA with a smaller chain discount grocery store! :) (Local CVS ((still listed on IC)) closed due to loss of customers, there is a Walgreens franchise in-town ((not on IC)) and CVS delivers medications by mail for free right now.) And our most recent shopper was lightning fast and a good shopper too.
- nickvanw 7y ago
  > Always buy from good small businesses first (vote with your wallet). Megacorps are unfortunately a practical, but depressing, evil last resort. Not to be a downer, but if you're looking for _good_ businesses, B&H is likely to score no higher than Amazon by most criteria. They: - Don't pay appropriate sales tax: https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14/20964980/b-h-photo-taxes-lawsuit-new-york-state https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14/20964980/b-h-photo-taxes... - Discriminate against Hispanic workers: https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/29/us/bh-photo-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/29/us/bh-photo-lawsuit/index.htm... - Discriminate against non-Jewish employees: https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/new-lawsuit-claims-b-and-h-discriminates-against-non-jewish-employees-571983 https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/new-lawsuit-claims-b-and-h-di...

specialist 7y ago

My new power tool arrived in just its own original mfg box. Instead of being reboxed by Amazon. Maybe because of FBA? (Reviewing the order details, I can't figure it out.) Whatever the reason, woot! Less is more.

arprocter 7y ago
We had something back-ordered on Amazon (from before all this crazyness happened) and it eventually arrived in a Sam's Club box
- throwanem 7y ago
  That's happened in the past with items I've ordered, as what appears to have been part of an arbitrage scheme - list items on Amazon that Walmart.com sells for less, and when you get an order, reorder it from Walmart.com with the Amazon buyer's shipping info. Every time it's happened and I've checked prices on Walmart.com, they've been ~20% lower than what I actually ended up paying. Seems like a cute little grift, all in all.
non-entity 7y ago
> Whatever the reason, woot! Less is more. Agreed, I'm sick of the russian nesting dolls game with amazon boxes
bootlooped 7y ago
I have noticed a higher frequency of this happening in the past year. I'm happy about it, there's no need to put an additional box around most items that already come in a cardboard box.
pkaye 7y ago
From what I read Amazon has been actively pushing manufacturers in this direction. Saves on packaging material and labor costs. They can automate even more of it.

neonate 7y ago

https://archive.md/hbzHu https://archive.md/hbzHu

cordite 7y ago

I’ve started looking to ebay and Newegg a bit more. However these days Newegg seems to be more a marketplace for Chinese sources and proxies of Chinese sources. Ebay has been okay, though sometimes they don’t even get the goods into the transport network until after it was promised to be delivered.