8 ms·

Can we say that the layoffs are mostly happening in US ? I can't see that trend in Europe, correct me if I'm wrong.

vrinstan 6y ago
The news here in Romania say that there are 1M fired. I don't believe that, smells like fake news. However I don't see how small firms will survive a two month pause. We will surely have lots of people fired but they won't make the news because they did not work at Google ;)
emerongi 6y ago
If you're basing this view off of HN, then remember that HN generally has a high percentage of users from US/SV/VC scene.
bnt 6y ago
Berlin is pretty nuts, lots of firing going on.
- bsmth 6y ago
  Are you able to mention who or what kind of companies? I could guess mobility / scooter sharing off the bat, but have not heard from many being let go.
- rusticpenn 6y ago
  Without options for short-term work?
- roadbeats 6y ago
  I live in Berlin as well and can't see any news in my circle, also the https://layoffs.fyi/tracker/ https://layoffs.fyi/tracker/ doesn't show any.
mardifoufs 6y ago
Why would it be? Europe is getting hit a lot harder and its economy is quickly collapsing. European banks were also weaker and less stress resistant than their US's counterparts so their ability to lend isn't a strong. Same thing for the EU corporations themselves, who are usually more in debt and have less access to non-bank financing (ie public bonds markets). So I'd be really surprised if we saw more lay offs in the US at the end of this
- Vinnl 6y ago
  One reason that it's could be less bad is due to government measures - e.g. in the Netherlands, employers can apply for the government to pay 90% of your salary for a while while they pay the other 10%, so that they can keep employing you until (hopefully) after things start up again. No idea how that compares to other companies, but if it differs, that's one possible explanation for different results.
  - yunesj 6y ago
    Only 90%? In the US, the CARES Act is paying 250% of payroll costs! https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cares-act-paycheck-protection-program-guide-for-workers https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cares-act-paychec...
    - Vinnl 6y ago
      I'm not too familiar with CARES, but I think the difference is that that is a one-time loan, whereas I think the Dutch government is taking up 90% of the salary costs every month, for a period of at most three months (so adding up to 270%), and is a gift, not a loan. That said, my overall point was that different measures can lead to different results - not that specific measures were different.
      - bitcurious 6y ago
        The CARES Act “loan” is structured as a loan in order to (a) enforce the use of funds for payroll expenses, and (b) use existing banking infrastructure. IIRC if you keep 80% of staff, the loan is forgiven. That said, the PPP ran out of funds today, so not all businesses are getting saved.
        Vinnl 6y ago
        Ah right, then that specific measure sounds rather similar (except for the running out, maybe).
  - 6y ago
Vinnl 6y ago
At least in the Netherlands many people, primarily service workers, have been let go: https://nos.nl/artikel/2330625-sterke-stijging-aantal-nieuwe-ww-uitkeringen-in-maart.html https://nos.nl/artikel/2330625-sterke-stijging-aantal-nieuwe...
hmottestad 6y ago
Norway is seeing its share of layoffs. I think it's mostly related to corona affected businesses like bars, restaurants, travel, retail and also oil & gas since the oil price fell like a rock. Norway went from 65 000 to 290 000 unemployed since beginning of March. We also have something called "permittering" where you don't loose your job, but you stop working and get aid from the state. It's meant for temporary dips where there is less work for your company but you think it'll pick up within the next 6 months. Pay is usually ~66% of your regular salary. For "permitteringer" we went from 1 000 - 2 000 per month on average to 345 000 in the last 1 1/2 months. In Norway we have around 2.67 million people in work. So we have seen a reduction of our workforce by 10% since beginning of March. Sources: - https://e24.no/spesial/2020/coronaviruset/permitteringer https://e24.no/spesial/2020/coronaviruset/permitteringer - https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/statistikker/arblonn https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/statistikker/arblonn
rvp-x 6y ago
I'm in neither of those places and we have a dramatic increase in unemployment (4% -> 26%), mostly furloughed employees. The local government is encouraging it probably because they don't need any special new legislation or methods to provide unemployment benefits.
aarroyoc 6y ago
I agree. In Spain most people are getting ERTEs, which allow you to keep the job, the state pays 80% of your salary. Also firing people is now temporaly banned (technically not, but it's much much more difficult to do until we're out of the state of alarm).
- overkalix 6y ago
  > the state pays 80% of your salary. Eventually...
InvOfSmallC 6y ago
It depends on what you mean. Italy is basically under state salary, the only one not using it, are companies with a meaning in this crisis (food producer etc...)

The news here in Romania say that there are 1M fired. I don't believe that, smells like fake news. However I don't see how small firms will survive a two month pause. We will surely have lots of people fired but they won't make the news because they did not work at Google ;)

emerongi 6y ago

If you're basing this view off of HN, then remember that HN generally has a high percentage of users from US/SV/VC scene.

bnt 6y ago

Berlin is pretty nuts, lots of firing going on.

bsmth 6y ago
Are you able to mention who or what kind of companies? I could guess mobility / scooter sharing off the bat, but have not heard from many being let go.
rusticpenn 6y ago
Without options for short-term work?
roadbeats 6y ago
I live in Berlin as well and can't see any news in my circle, also the https://layoffs.fyi/tracker/ https://layoffs.fyi/tracker/ doesn't show any.

mardifoufs 6y ago

Why would it be? Europe is getting hit a lot harder and its economy is quickly collapsing. European banks were also weaker and less stress resistant than their US's counterparts so their ability to lend isn't a strong. Same thing for the EU corporations themselves, who are usually more in debt and have less access to non-bank financing (ie public bonds markets). So I'd be really surprised if we saw more lay offs in the US at the end of this

Vinnl 6y ago
One reason that it's could be less bad is due to government measures - e.g. in the Netherlands, employers can apply for the government to pay 90% of your salary for a while while they pay the other 10%, so that they can keep employing you until (hopefully) after things start up again. No idea how that compares to other companies, but if it differs, that's one possible explanation for different results.
- yunesj 6y ago
  Only 90%? In the US, the CARES Act is paying 250% of payroll costs! https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cares-act-paycheck-protection-program-guide-for-workers https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cares-act-paychec...
  - Vinnl 6y ago
    I'm not too familiar with CARES, but I think the difference is that that is a one-time loan, whereas I think the Dutch government is taking up 90% of the salary costs every month, for a period of at most three months (so adding up to 270%), and is a gift, not a loan. That said, my overall point was that different measures can lead to different results - not that specific measures were different.
    - bitcurious 6y ago
      The CARES Act “loan” is structured as a loan in order to (a) enforce the use of funds for payroll expenses, and (b) use existing banking infrastructure. IIRC if you keep 80% of staff, the loan is forgiven. That said, the PPP ran out of funds today, so not all businesses are getting saved.
      - Vinnl 6y ago
        Ah right, then that specific measure sounds rather similar (except for the running out, maybe).
- 6y ago

Vinnl 6y ago

At least in the Netherlands many people, primarily service workers, have been let go: https://nos.nl/artikel/2330625-sterke-stijging-aantal-nieuwe-ww-uitkeringen-in-maart.html https://nos.nl/artikel/2330625-sterke-stijging-aantal-nieuwe...

hmottestad 6y ago

Norway is seeing its share of layoffs. I think it's mostly related to corona affected businesses like bars, restaurants, travel, retail and also oil & gas since the oil price fell like a rock. Norway went from 65 000 to 290 000 unemployed since beginning of March. We also have something called "permittering" where you don't loose your job, but you stop working and get aid from the state. It's meant for temporary dips where there is less work for your company but you think it'll pick up within the next 6 months. Pay is usually ~66% of your regular salary. For "permitteringer" we went from 1 000 - 2 000 per month on average to 345 000 in the last 1 1/2 months. In Norway we have around 2.67 million people in work. So we have seen a reduction of our workforce by 10% since beginning of March. Sources: - https://e24.no/spesial/2020/coronaviruset/permitteringer https://e24.no/spesial/2020/coronaviruset/permitteringer - https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/statistikker/arblonn https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/statistikker/arblonn

rvp-x 6y ago

I'm in neither of those places and we have a dramatic increase in unemployment (4% -> 26%), mostly furloughed employees. The local government is encouraging it probably because they don't need any special new legislation or methods to provide unemployment benefits.

aarroyoc 6y ago

I agree. In Spain most people are getting ERTEs, which allow you to keep the job, the state pays 80% of your salary. Also firing people is now temporaly banned (technically not, but it's much much more difficult to do until we're out of the state of alarm).

overkalix 6y ago
> the state pays 80% of your salary. Eventually...

InvOfSmallC 6y ago

It depends on what you mean. Italy is basically under state salary, the only one not using it, are companies with a meaning in this crisis (food producer etc...)