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British Rail was the name of the railnetwork in the UK before it got privatised and split up (many still don't think that was a good thing either). Was before

by Zenst 7y ago

British Rail was the name of the railnetwork in the UK before it got privatised and split up (many still don't think that was a good thing either). Was before my time and I do recall the buffett cars and resturant cars and could buy cans of alcohol. Though in many parts (whole London area for sure) you are now not allowed to drink and it is illegal. Which for many, disagree with. Though you are not allowed to smoke on the platforms at stations either, which is a good thing IMHO - though it was darn handy to work out were to stand at a station so when the train stopped you would be near the doors to embark as you could see the grouping of cigarette butts grouping on the tracks near the door hotspots. Would this work today - nope as in many of the routes, they can't even provide enough seats and often see services that are the polar opposite of what we class as social distancing by today's standards. Indeed, the game sardines would be a step-up on space for many services. Alas rail - least in the UK, is expensive, crowded and sad when you can get a return flight from London to Scotland for less than a single ticket from London to Birmingham - much less alas and also quicker.

PaulRobinson 7y ago
You are absolutely allowed to drink on long-distance trains (West Coast and East Coast mainlines, the lines out to Norwich, Cornwall, etc.), and in fact on a weekday service travelling first class, there is complimentary alcohol. I was having a glass of wine on the train just a couple of months ago. Commuter services are very different - and yes, this wouldn't work on those routes today.
- Zenst 7y ago
  Good to hear you can still drink on long-distance trains, alas not so in London area https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2008/may/alcohol-ban-comes-into-force-on-the-tube-trams-and-buses-from-this-sunday-1-june https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2008/may/al... What with TFL gradually expanding, one does wonder what the future does hold.
  - twic 7y ago
    The ban applies to services operated by TfL - the underground, buses, trams, the Overground, and the DLR. But it doesn't apply to train services within London operated by train companies. You can get on the train at Finsbury Park, crack open a can, and enjoy it on the way into Moorgate.
    - Zenst 7y ago
      Well I can get a train from Waterloo out to Chessington and can't drink upon that. :( In short, if you can pay by Oyster - your can't drink and ride. Unless of course you're an MP and then apparently you just do it and play down any drama and no fines at all.
      - twic 7y ago
        I don't think this is true, but i could be wrong. What is your basis for thinking you can't drink on that train?
        Zenst 7y ago
        The law, announcements on those trains, as said, anything that TFL touch's and with that, if you can pay for or use that train with an Oyster card, you not going to be drinking without risk of a large fine. So based on experience, other experiences and laws. Also note many companies run dry-trains, so with that, can't drink or carry(questionable as long as sealed and not been open you can afaik). https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/drinking-alcohol-in-public-places/ https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-l...
        twic 7y ago
        What law? I've never heard of any connection between being able to pay with Oyster and not being able to drink - this sounds like an old wives' tale to me. I know there are specific trains where drinking is banned. Elsewhere in this thread, there are some examples in Wales. I can't find anything about it being banned on trains to Chessington, or anywhere on South Western Railway, though. Not can their help person on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1250795304837951490?s=19 https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1250795304837951490?s=19
- volkl48 7y ago
  Here in the US, Metro-North (one of the 3 major NYC-area commuter rail systems) was running bar cars until 2014. You can bring your own alcohol on all 3 of the NYC-area commuter rail systems and drink if you want with the exception of some of late night hours/major drinking holidays.
nicoburns 7y ago
> British Rail was the name of the railnetwork in the UK before it got privatised and split up (many still don't think that was a good thing either). Note that rail in the UK has effectively been taken back into public ownership due to the coronavirus crisis (it's being run by the private companies still, but for a set fee determined by government - they're not getting any of the money from ticket sales). And it's widely suspected that it won't return to the previous franchise model when the crisis is over (as there was a recent government report recommending this, and apparently there were already plans in the works to shake things up).
- switch007 7y ago
  "Public" and "Private" don't magically fix all our rail issues. The Government knows this. We really must ask more of our politicians than just headline statements. It's eminently possible that the Gov's idea of an alternative to the private franchise model will be much worse.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
ashtonkem 7y ago
I find it surprising that a country as geographically small as the UK wouldn’t find a way to make rail more attractive than flying.
- cstross 7y ago
  You don't need to be surprised -- rail is more widely used than domestic air travel. (Reminder: regular express services run at up to 125mph; the HS1 -- Channel tunnel -- route maxes out at 180mph, and the HS2 line in development is due to hit 220mph eventually. This isn't Amtrak!) The real competition for trains is automobiles and coaches, due to road-building having been prioritized since the 1950s. Also, rail fares have risen faster than inflation ever since privatization, and the surplus were siphoned off to the private-sector owners rather than being reinvested in modernization. Hence the current poor state of affairs.
  - pmyteh 7y ago
    This is right. Generally, rail dominates air for journeys of up to three hours, and is competitive up to about 5. Many of the domestic air routes (and closer international routes like London to Paris) are really only for people connecting onto long-distance flights rather than a popular way of going city-to-city. The more general-purpose flights are either longer (London to Scotland, or Exeter to the North) or over water (mainland to NI, for example). The main competition for medium-distance routes is absolutely road, which has the majority share (cheaper, but normally slower on the main intercity trunks).
  - razakel 7y ago
    >the private-sector owners Many of the train operating companies are in fact owned by foreign governments. Abellio is Nederlandse Spoorwegen, Arriva is Deutsche Bahn, Govia is SNCF.
- taffer 7y ago
  The countries where rail transport is competitive with air transport (France, Japan) have high-speed rail that is separate from regional lines.
- 7y ago
Nursie 7y ago
> Though in many parts (whole London area for sure) you are now not allowed to drink and it is illegal. You can drink on the rail network through most of the country. Most of the longer distance trains either have a drinks/snacks hatch or a trolley that goes up and down the train selling drinks and snacks. I agree the service is in a pretty dire state and crazy expensive.
- sheng1 7y ago
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Mvandenbergh 7y ago
>Though in many parts (whole London area for sure) you are now not allowed to drink and it is illegal. Not the case, only on TfL services. Commuter trains you can if you like.
stordoff 7y ago
> Though in many parts (whole London area for sure) you are now not allowed to drink and it is illegal Only TfL it seems. I've been on a London-Doncaster train and was served alcohol before we even left King's Cross (complementary - it was only about £2 more for a first class ticket - and the train was barely even moving before they started serving).

by Zenst 7y ago

PaulRobinson 7y ago

You are absolutely allowed to drink on long-distance trains (West Coast and East Coast mainlines, the lines out to Norwich, Cornwall, etc.), and in fact on a weekday service travelling first class, there is complimentary alcohol. I was having a glass of wine on the train just a couple of months ago. Commuter services are very different - and yes, this wouldn't work on those routes today.

Zenst 7y ago
Good to hear you can still drink on long-distance trains, alas not so in London area https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2008/may/alcohol-ban-comes-into-force-on-the-tube-trams-and-buses-from-this-sunday-1-june https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2008/may/al... What with TFL gradually expanding, one does wonder what the future does hold.
- twic 7y ago
  The ban applies to services operated by TfL - the underground, buses, trams, the Overground, and the DLR. But it doesn't apply to train services within London operated by train companies. You can get on the train at Finsbury Park, crack open a can, and enjoy it on the way into Moorgate.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    Well I can get a train from Waterloo out to Chessington and can't drink upon that. :( In short, if you can pay by Oyster - your can't drink and ride. Unless of course you're an MP and then apparently you just do it and play down any drama and no fines at all.
    - twic 7y ago
      I don't think this is true, but i could be wrong. What is your basis for thinking you can't drink on that train?
      - Zenst 7y ago
        The law, announcements on those trains, as said, anything that TFL touch's and with that, if you can pay for or use that train with an Oyster card, you not going to be drinking without risk of a large fine. So based on experience, other experiences and laws. Also note many companies run dry-trains, so with that, can't drink or carry(questionable as long as sealed and not been open you can afaik). https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/drinking-alcohol-in-public-places/ https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-l...
        twic 7y ago
        What law? I've never heard of any connection between being able to pay with Oyster and not being able to drink - this sounds like an old wives' tale to me. I know there are specific trains where drinking is banned. Elsewhere in this thread, there are some examples in Wales. I can't find anything about it being banned on trains to Chessington, or anywhere on South Western Railway, though. Not can their help person on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1250795304837951490?s=19 https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1250795304837951490?s=19
volkl48 7y ago
Here in the US, Metro-North (one of the 3 major NYC-area commuter rail systems) was running bar cars until 2014. You can bring your own alcohol on all 3 of the NYC-area commuter rail systems and drink if you want with the exception of some of late night hours/major drinking holidays.

nicoburns 7y ago

> British Rail was the name of the railnetwork in the UK before it got privatised and split up (many still don't think that was a good thing either). Note that rail in the UK has effectively been taken back into public ownership due to the coronavirus crisis (it's being run by the private companies still, but for a set fee determined by government - they're not getting any of the money from ticket sales). And it's widely suspected that it won't return to the previous franchise model when the crisis is over (as there was a recent government report recommending this, and apparently there were already plans in the works to shake things up).

switch007 7y ago
"Public" and "Private" don't magically fix all our rail issues. The Government knows this. We really must ask more of our politicians than just headline statements. It's eminently possible that the Gov's idea of an alternative to the private franchise model will be much worse.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

ashtonkem 7y ago

I find it surprising that a country as geographically small as the UK wouldn’t find a way to make rail more attractive than flying.

cstross 7y ago
You don't need to be surprised -- rail is more widely used than domestic air travel. (Reminder: regular express services run at up to 125mph; the HS1 -- Channel tunnel -- route maxes out at 180mph, and the HS2 line in development is due to hit 220mph eventually. This isn't Amtrak!) The real competition for trains is automobiles and coaches, due to road-building having been prioritized since the 1950s. Also, rail fares have risen faster than inflation ever since privatization, and the surplus were siphoned off to the private-sector owners rather than being reinvested in modernization. Hence the current poor state of affairs.
- pmyteh 7y ago
  This is right. Generally, rail dominates air for journeys of up to three hours, and is competitive up to about 5. Many of the domestic air routes (and closer international routes like London to Paris) are really only for people connecting onto long-distance flights rather than a popular way of going city-to-city. The more general-purpose flights are either longer (London to Scotland, or Exeter to the North) or over water (mainland to NI, for example). The main competition for medium-distance routes is absolutely road, which has the majority share (cheaper, but normally slower on the main intercity trunks).
- razakel 7y ago
  >the private-sector owners Many of the train operating companies are in fact owned by foreign governments. Abellio is Nederlandse Spoorwegen, Arriva is Deutsche Bahn, Govia is SNCF.
taffer 7y ago
The countries where rail transport is competitive with air transport (France, Japan) have high-speed rail that is separate from regional lines.
7y ago

Nursie 7y ago

> Though in many parts (whole London area for sure) you are now not allowed to drink and it is illegal. You can drink on the rail network through most of the country. Most of the longer distance trains either have a drinks/snacks hatch or a trolley that goes up and down the train selling drinks and snacks. I agree the service is in a pretty dire state and crazy expensive.

sheng1 7y ago
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Mvandenbergh 7y ago

>Though in many parts (whole London area for sure) you are now not allowed to drink and it is illegal. Not the case, only on TfL services. Commuter trains you can if you like.

stordoff 7y ago

> Though in many parts (whole London area for sure) you are now not allowed to drink and it is illegal Only TfL it seems. I've been on a London-Doncaster train and was served alcohol before we even left King's Cross (complementary - it was only about £2 more for a first class ticket - and the train was barely even moving before they started serving).