5 ms·

Can’t get over the fact that even food banks are apparently drive-through operations in the US, in what appears to be a suburban wasteland... And considering t

Can’t get over the fact that even food banks are apparently drive-through operations in the US, in what appears to be a suburban wasteland... And considering that the increase in demand here is exclusively people who had a job until the bottom fell out on the economy, shouldn’t the whole rationale for requiring people to waste time and go through this exercise of very visible shaming be re-evaluated? As far as I understand it, it was commonly believed that poor people aren’t capable of handling money and therefore should only get food, not money. That idea was never a good fit with changing unemployment numbers, and these days it’s plainly visible that all these people didn’t suddenly become drug-addicts incapable of holding down a job. So why continue humiliating them?

72deluxe 7y ago
I do not know why you've been downvoted but I am not sure that queuing up for something is "visible shaming"? If you need something, surely waiting in a queue for it is a logical thing to do? Its intent isn't to shame you, just you have to wait to get it in a line with all of the many other people who want it. If I had no food, I'd be certain to get in a queue regardless of the "image" it presented. Priorities!
- KarlKemp 7y ago
  People sometimes die because they fail to mention their drug habits to their anesthesiologists. Pregnant Teenage girls commit suicide because they fear anyone finding out, or die giving birth all by themselves, or bleed out with a coat hangar stuck through their uterus. Shame is a powerful emotion. It might be related to me being European that I believe in sparing people such experiences (“dignity” is a big concept here), the stigma itself might be proportionally stronger in the US. Death of a Salesman is all about that, IIRC, and considered a cornerstone of Americana.
  - 72deluxe 7y ago
    I am aware that shame is a powerful emotion, but I am not sure that a drug habit is the same as not having food. Food is something we all need, drugs are not. Food is a mandatory, drugs are optional. If I decide to take up something that is optional, dealing with the repercussions of my choice is part of me choosing to do said action. Food is very different. I remember Death of a Salesman being about how the father carried on away from home and his son found out, and how he killed himself over the shame of it and how it affected his son. I thought it was more about the repercussions of his selfish actions than being purely about the emotions that he himself felt. If anything, the father was not a figure to be emulated. In these sad situations, it is clear that there is a flotilla of other individuals who are also sadly in the same situation, so it isn't a "shame" queue that the "non shamed" observers can stand at a distance and deride. If I was too ashamed/proud to be seen queuing for food (we all do at a checkout in supermarkets anyway?), I would perfectly expect someone to ask me if I considered starving as more important than my presented image. Which would I rather be: embarrassed, or starving?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
>As far as I understand it, it was commonly believed that poor people aren’t capable of handling money and therefore should only get food, not money. Do you know that the most educated people in the country are working hard to make poor people buy stuff they don't need? Who is actually running the advertising business and using the best technology ever invented to increase their profit at all cost? Who's to blame? Maybe be should just stop pushing people under stress to do stupid things and provide them with the best resources to fulfill their need. Money is an excellent medium for that when the game isn't just about blind profits.
- KarlKemp 7y ago
  I was mocking that idea, not supporting it. The problem always was that it’s really hard to give evidence for what’s basically different ideas about human nature. And that the truth is almost certainly some mixture of circumstances and individual shortcomings. But when unemployment suddenly jumps to maybe 20 or 30%, that uncertainty vanishes, and gone with it is any legitimization for purely punitive policies.
pbourke 7y ago
> Can’t get over the fact that even food banks are apparently drive-through operations in the US, in what appears to be a suburban wasteland... I thought the car pickup was happening because buildings have been closed for social distancing?
JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Makes a better picture. That many people standing in line wouldn't look like much.
rasz 7y ago
>all these people didn’t suddenly become drug-addicts incapable of holding down a job give it some time

72deluxe 7y ago

I do not know why you've been downvoted but I am not sure that queuing up for something is "visible shaming"? If you need something, surely waiting in a queue for it is a logical thing to do? Its intent isn't to shame you, just you have to wait to get it in a line with all of the many other people who want it. If I had no food, I'd be certain to get in a queue regardless of the "image" it presented. Priorities!

KarlKemp 7y ago
People sometimes die because they fail to mention their drug habits to their anesthesiologists. Pregnant Teenage girls commit suicide because they fear anyone finding out, or die giving birth all by themselves, or bleed out with a coat hangar stuck through their uterus. Shame is a powerful emotion. It might be related to me being European that I believe in sparing people such experiences (“dignity” is a big concept here), the stigma itself might be proportionally stronger in the US. Death of a Salesman is all about that, IIRC, and considered a cornerstone of Americana.
- 72deluxe 7y ago
  I am aware that shame is a powerful emotion, but I am not sure that a drug habit is the same as not having food. Food is something we all need, drugs are not. Food is a mandatory, drugs are optional. If I decide to take up something that is optional, dealing with the repercussions of my choice is part of me choosing to do said action. Food is very different. I remember Death of a Salesman being about how the father carried on away from home and his son found out, and how he killed himself over the shame of it and how it affected his son. I thought it was more about the repercussions of his selfish actions than being purely about the emotions that he himself felt. If anything, the father was not a figure to be emulated. In these sad situations, it is clear that there is a flotilla of other individuals who are also sadly in the same situation, so it isn't a "shame" queue that the "non shamed" observers can stand at a distance and deride. If I was too ashamed/proud to be seen queuing for food (we all do at a checkout in supermarkets anyway?), I would perfectly expect someone to ask me if I considered starving as more important than my presented image. Which would I rather be: embarrassed, or starving?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago

>As far as I understand it, it was commonly believed that poor people aren’t capable of handling money and therefore should only get food, not money. Do you know that the most educated people in the country are working hard to make poor people buy stuff they don't need? Who is actually running the advertising business and using the best technology ever invented to increase their profit at all cost? Who's to blame? Maybe be should just stop pushing people under stress to do stupid things and provide them with the best resources to fulfill their need. Money is an excellent medium for that when the game isn't just about blind profits.

KarlKemp 7y ago
I was mocking that idea, not supporting it. The problem always was that it’s really hard to give evidence for what’s basically different ideas about human nature. And that the truth is almost certainly some mixture of circumstances and individual shortcomings. But when unemployment suddenly jumps to maybe 20 or 30%, that uncertainty vanishes, and gone with it is any legitimization for purely punitive policies.

pbourke 7y ago

> Can’t get over the fact that even food banks are apparently drive-through operations in the US, in what appears to be a suburban wasteland... I thought the car pickup was happening because buildings have been closed for social distancing?

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

Makes a better picture. That many people standing in line wouldn't look like much.

rasz 7y ago

>all these people didn’t suddenly become drug-addicts incapable of holding down a job give it some time