4 ms·

Just to play devil's advocate, it's not really clear from the article what the designer is proud about. "The strongest and most expensive unit in our Pirate Fa

Just to play devil's advocate, it's not really clear from the article what the designer is proud about. "The strongest and most expensive unit in our Pirate Faction is the Pirate Queen. She is kick ass, looks cool, and is even voiced by myself!" Why shouldn't she be kick ass and looking cool? Why shouldn't she be the most expensive unit in the faction? It's speaking to a narrative for which we have to guess the other side. I think the implication is that players of the game are not predisposed to enjoy female units in the game. I don't know anything about the game, so maybe I'm missing something, but I actually find that insulting. Why is it a given that there will be such a misogynistic view? While we have to accept that some gamers do have this awful point of view, I think it's part of the problem that some people feel that gamers must be like that. In some ways it is potentially a bit of a sad thing to be proud of. I mean it can be taken in a few ways. One might be proud to have pushed this strong female unit into the midst of an audience that normally wouldn't accept it. Or one might be proud to have been able to deliver the strong female unit that the audience has been hungering for. I can see some people feeling a bit put out if they assume that the designer's intent was the former rather than the latter. It's potentially really demeaning.

DonHopkins 7y ago
>Why is it a given that there will be such a misogynistic view? Have you been cryogenically frozen for the past six years, and just thawed out and taken a nice long pee, but haven't had a chance to catch up on Gamergate? Do you even know who's president? No, I don't think it's the female game designers who are being "demeaning". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFDo6G-EO8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFDo6G-EO8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
- mikekchar 7y ago
  It's not really a reaction that I expect from someone whose posts I have respected so well up to this point. There is a difference between acknowledging that some people are behaving in horrible ways and assuming that everyone must be educated about the need for inclusion. If someone assumes I am a mysogynist simply because I am a male gamer, that is a really terrible problem. I don't think that's what's happening here, but being open to the idea that someone may reasonably misinterpret the situation as such is not a massive stretch. Please don't assume that all people who have a different view of a situation are massive jerks. Understanding that different people have different perspectives is key to improving interpersonal problems. For example, I wonder if you know who the prime minister is?
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    Relax: Other people have much worse "really terrible problems" than having their feelings hurt because they mis-interpreted a female game designer describing her proudest achievement as implying that you're misogynistic because you're a male gamer. Was Gamergate news to you, or not? It sounds like you don't know anything about it (which is perfectly fine if you've been living in a cave for the past six years), or you're in denial that it happened and what its consequences were. The obvious answer to "Why is it a given that there will be such a misogynistic view?" is "Gamergate". It's not about your pain and anguish from being implicitly painted as a misogynist because you're male gamer. It's about your own words, not your gender or pastime. It's about the women who have been attacked and their careers destroyed, or their proudest achievements belittled by jerks on the internet saying things like "In some ways it is potentially a bit of a sad thing to be proud of." I'll admit it was kind of you to graciously hedge your attack with "potentially a bit", magnanimously allowing her the remote possibility of actually being proud of her achievement in a non-sad way. But to socially distance yourself from the responsibility of your own words, you should have thrown in a "some people say" or "a lot of people are saying" to give it more corn pone authenticity, to make it clear you're belittling her sense of pride in her greatest achievement on someone else's behalf, not on your own accord. You should familiarize yourself with the concept of your own "male fragility". https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a30324982/rise-of-online-harassment-decade-of-male-fragility/ https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a30324982/ris... The Prime Minster is Mark Rutte, of course.
    - mikekchar 7y ago
      If I was clumsy in trying to express my point of view and insulted you or others, then I humbly and truly apologise. It certainly was not my intention. It is frustrating to be shouted down in such an aggressive manner by someone who is unable to understand what I was writing. I suppose that you fear the damage that might occur if someone were to similarly misunderstand as completely as you have done. I think that is a valid complaint. It is unfortunate because there are people who are being harmed by those who feel it is important to punish anyone who sees the world differently than they do. Frequently these people have done nothing wrong other than to be misunderstood. When we condemn people simply by association, we harm everyone. If we assume that someone is guilty of the horrible crimes that were committed in Gamergate simply because they happen to be male or a gamer or view things differently, we harm everyone. When I say that this is part of the problem, that's what I mean. This isn't making things better -- it's making them far worse. Please try to understand what your conversation partner is saying, why they are saying it and what they mean before you jump to conclusions.
valesco 7y ago
Guy is hired by videogame studio, makes a kickass warrior and is proud of it. Tells it to interviewer. Is accused of pushing an egalitarist agenda by internet strangers. Come on guys.
Riverheart 7y ago
I think she was just proud of adding more "representation" of her gender in a game that didn't have it and not having a ceiling on how powerful those units could be. It's an important cultural message of equality of our genders. I don't think she was implying that male gamers can't enjoy strong female characters but maybe the developers didn't consider it more. Maybe female gamers would appreciate the representation. I do think Don is being a bit harsh in his criticism of you. I don't find any malevolence in your comment.

DonHopkins 7y ago

>Why is it a given that there will be such a misogynistic view? Have you been cryogenically frozen for the past six years, and just thawed out and taken a nice long pee, but haven't had a chance to catch up on Gamergate? Do you even know who's president? No, I don't think it's the female game designers who are being "demeaning". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFDo6G-EO8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFDo6G-EO8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

mikekchar 7y ago
It's not really a reaction that I expect from someone whose posts I have respected so well up to this point. There is a difference between acknowledging that some people are behaving in horrible ways and assuming that everyone must be educated about the need for inclusion. If someone assumes I am a mysogynist simply because I am a male gamer, that is a really terrible problem. I don't think that's what's happening here, but being open to the idea that someone may reasonably misinterpret the situation as such is not a massive stretch. Please don't assume that all people who have a different view of a situation are massive jerks. Understanding that different people have different perspectives is key to improving interpersonal problems. For example, I wonder if you know who the prime minister is?
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Relax: Other people have much worse "really terrible problems" than having their feelings hurt because they mis-interpreted a female game designer describing her proudest achievement as implying that you're misogynistic because you're a male gamer. Was Gamergate news to you, or not? It sounds like you don't know anything about it (which is perfectly fine if you've been living in a cave for the past six years), or you're in denial that it happened and what its consequences were. The obvious answer to "Why is it a given that there will be such a misogynistic view?" is "Gamergate". It's not about your pain and anguish from being implicitly painted as a misogynist because you're male gamer. It's about your own words, not your gender or pastime. It's about the women who have been attacked and their careers destroyed, or their proudest achievements belittled by jerks on the internet saying things like "In some ways it is potentially a bit of a sad thing to be proud of." I'll admit it was kind of you to graciously hedge your attack with "potentially a bit", magnanimously allowing her the remote possibility of actually being proud of her achievement in a non-sad way. But to socially distance yourself from the responsibility of your own words, you should have thrown in a "some people say" or "a lot of people are saying" to give it more corn pone authenticity, to make it clear you're belittling her sense of pride in her greatest achievement on someone else's behalf, not on your own accord. You should familiarize yourself with the concept of your own "male fragility". https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a30324982/rise-of-online-harassment-decade-of-male-fragility/ https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a30324982/ris... The Prime Minster is Mark Rutte, of course.
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    If I was clumsy in trying to express my point of view and insulted you or others, then I humbly and truly apologise. It certainly was not my intention. It is frustrating to be shouted down in such an aggressive manner by someone who is unable to understand what I was writing. I suppose that you fear the damage that might occur if someone were to similarly misunderstand as completely as you have done. I think that is a valid complaint. It is unfortunate because there are people who are being harmed by those who feel it is important to punish anyone who sees the world differently than they do. Frequently these people have done nothing wrong other than to be misunderstood. When we condemn people simply by association, we harm everyone. If we assume that someone is guilty of the horrible crimes that were committed in Gamergate simply because they happen to be male or a gamer or view things differently, we harm everyone. When I say that this is part of the problem, that's what I mean. This isn't making things better -- it's making them far worse. Please try to understand what your conversation partner is saying, why they are saying it and what they mean before you jump to conclusions.

valesco 7y ago

Guy is hired by videogame studio, makes a kickass warrior and is proud of it. Tells it to interviewer. Is accused of pushing an egalitarist agenda by internet strangers. Come on guys.

Riverheart 7y ago

I think she was just proud of adding more "representation" of her gender in a game that didn't have it and not having a ceiling on how powerful those units could be. It's an important cultural message of equality of our genders. I don't think she was implying that male gamers can't enjoy strong female characters but maybe the developers didn't consider it more. Maybe female gamers would appreciate the representation. I do think Don is being a bit harsh in his criticism of you. I don't find any malevolence in your comment.