5 ms·

What does your productivity in js have to do with js having a terrible community?

emilsedgh 7y ago
It's the [terrible] community that provides so much value in form of npm, not that js is really that much more productive.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  There's no contradiction between providing a ton of value and being horrible. You know how people ask "why do people stay in abusive marriages?"? That's why. On a bigger scale, this passage from The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han stuck with me: > Today, in a stretch of about 1,100 miles, the Yellow River moves along 11 yards above the plain. But dikes do not control silting, and floods continued to occur on an ever larger scale. On more than 1,500 occasions during the history of imperial China the Yellow River burst its dikes, destroying farmland, killing villagers, and earning its description as "China's sorrow".
  - nimonian 7y ago
    I don't think it's fair to victims of abusive relationships for you to use this analogy: the truth is far darker and more complex, and survivors deserve more credit than you're giving them. I could give you my story as an example in case you haven't ever been exposed to this kind of abuse, but maybe it is enough for me to say we should all think twice before using such an extreme and unique scenario in our arguments.
nindalf 7y ago
Their productivity is directly related the to vast ecosystem of packages available. Those packages were written and maintained by the community. They are rebutting the assertion that this community is bad. It can't be that bad if they're helping millions of developers solve real problems around the world.
- 411111111111111 7y ago
  People can be ptsd inducingly toxic and still deliver quality code. These things aren't related
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
dspillett 7y ago
It's like modern fighter jets which are designed to be unstable so they are more manoeuvrable, aided by the computer controls to stop that instability being dangerous. If the computer systems fail, the pilot will not cope and the jet will crash and burn. The JS community is unstable, but in a way that produces useful things rapidly. Stuff just gets thrown out there and the good parts stick. Certain dampening factors protect you from the most dangerous effects of this (unless you live your life at the bleeding edge) like the jet's computer controlled micro-interventions protecting the pilot form how jittery the airframe actually is. Occasionally this goes wrong and the protection fails. "Leftpad" was one such matter that caused thing to crash and burn temporarily. Luckily unlike an expensive jet hitting the ground, the damage from such incidents is relatively easy to repair after the fact. The throw-it-out-and-see-if-it-works part isn't the only issue with the JS community but it is a significant one and does relate to some of the others, though one that does provide some benefit in the form of forward momentum.

It's the [terrible] community that provides so much value in form of npm, not that js is really that much more productive.

thaumasiotes 7y ago
There's no contradiction between providing a ton of value and being horrible. You know how people ask "why do people stay in abusive marriages?"? That's why. On a bigger scale, this passage from The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han stuck with me: > Today, in a stretch of about 1,100 miles, the Yellow River moves along 11 yards above the plain. But dikes do not control silting, and floods continued to occur on an ever larger scale. On more than 1,500 occasions during the history of imperial China the Yellow River burst its dikes, destroying farmland, killing villagers, and earning its description as "China's sorrow".
- nimonian 7y ago
  I don't think it's fair to victims of abusive relationships for you to use this analogy: the truth is far darker and more complex, and survivors deserve more credit than you're giving them. I could give you my story as an example in case you haven't ever been exposed to this kind of abuse, but maybe it is enough for me to say we should all think twice before using such an extreme and unique scenario in our arguments.

nindalf 7y ago

Their productivity is directly related the to vast ecosystem of packages available. Those packages were written and maintained by the community. They are rebutting the assertion that this community is bad. It can't be that bad if they're helping millions of developers solve real problems around the world.

411111111111111 7y ago
People can be ptsd inducingly toxic and still deliver quality code. These things aren't related
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

dspillett 7y ago

It's like modern fighter jets which are designed to be unstable so they are more manoeuvrable, aided by the computer controls to stop that instability being dangerous. If the computer systems fail, the pilot will not cope and the jet will crash and burn. The JS community is unstable, but in a way that produces useful things rapidly. Stuff just gets thrown out there and the good parts stick. Certain dampening factors protect you from the most dangerous effects of this (unless you live your life at the bleeding edge) like the jet's computer controlled micro-interventions protecting the pilot form how jittery the airframe actually is. Occasionally this goes wrong and the protection fails. "Leftpad" was one such matter that caused thing to crash and burn temporarily. Luckily unlike an expensive jet hitting the ground, the damage from such incidents is relatively easy to repair after the fact. The throw-it-out-and-see-if-it-works part isn't the only issue with the JS community but it is a significant one and does relate to some of the others, though one that does provide some benefit in the form of forward momentum.