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The situation with Elon is kinda complicated. I almost never side with his haters (short-sellers, Brooklyn socialists etc) but there’s no doubt he does some obj

by firasd 7y ago

The situation with Elon is kinda complicated. I almost never side with his haters (short-sellers, Brooklyn socialists etc) but there’s no doubt he does some objectionable things from time to time. Long before the more recent controversies I remember probably the first thing that turned me off a bit was when someone wrote a critical piece about a launch event and Tesla cancelled his car purchase.. (Incidentally I looked up that incident and saw PG kinda didn’t like it either https://twitter.com/paulg/status/694892884508553216?s=21 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/694892884508553216?s=21 )

voz_ 7y ago
> I almost never side with his haters (short-sellers, Brooklyn socialists etc) but there’s no doubt he does some objectionable things from time to time. This may be one of the oddest sentence to read on HN. What are you talking about? Also, regarding canceling someone's car purchase for writing a critical piece, why do you see that as a bad thing? or a good one?
- firasd 7y ago
  I guess this shows that I spend too much time on twitter but there are big conflicts on there about things he does all the time; and he is very polarizing, with legions of fans and detractors. Short sellers and left wing types are big subcultures among prominent Elon detractors.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  I think a lot of us would prefer to maintain a cognitive Chinese wall between the companies we deal with and our underlying opinions about them, and would prefer that the companies have the same attitude towards us. I'd like to be able to criticize specific products and policies by Google, for example, without putting my entire Google account at risk. It seems like that's how it works with Google or even with (post-Jobs) Apple, and that's a good thing. The last time I bought a new car, though, I filled in the manufacturer's survey in painstaking detail, calling out points I liked, aspects I didn't like, and a few things I considered ridiculous or unacceptable. Apparently my responses not only made it back to the local dealer, but earned me a reputation on the sales floor as a dissatisfied customer -- or worse, an unsatisfiable one. It never occurred to them that if I were really annoyed or disappointed in the car, or had any kind of personal beef with its manufacturer, I wouldn't have wasted time filling out the survey in the first place. I answered the survey honestly and comprehensively because I plan to buy more cars from them in the future and would like my input to be considered. Companies need to understand that the opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference. When someone takes the time to criticize you in detail, you don't have to take it as a declaration of war. You can always ignore them if you don't feel their input has merit. From hearing all these anecdotes over the years, I'm under the impression that Tesla takes things a little too personally.
  - fastball 7y ago
    If your overall impression of a car was negative before you got the car, surely you wouldn't go through with the purchase? There must be cars that you have a generally positive view of and therefore want to purchase, no? There are a lot of cars...
    - CamperBob2 7y ago
      I don't follow you; that's not what I said at all. Then again, maybe that was the original problem. :)
IAmEveryone 7y ago
So it's "kinda complicated" because... you've tagged people disagreeing with Musk as "Brooklyn Socialist". And such "Brooklyn Socialists" are, apparently, people you can not imagine ever agreeing with, on anything. But sometimes, you also disagree with Musk. Which should be impossible, logically, if the above were true. Which is causing some sort of cognitive dissonance. And your current thinking on this breakdown in everything you hold to be true is that Elon Musk is the rare subject that's not quite as easy to judge within your simple good/evil framework that usually works so well. Have you considered that maybe it's your thinking in tired clichés that's giving you all the trouble here? Maybe Elon Musk is right on some things, wrong on others? Maybe "Brooklyn Socialists" aren't always wrong on everything? I believe I know some people you might file under that term, and some of them like cats, others don't, and there's one who doesn't care either way. Unless you categorically deny the existence of cats, it would seem impossible for you to disagree with all of them.
- firasd 7y ago
  No, it's the other way around--I was talking about online communities that are primed to say vacuously negative things about Musk. I'm saying I never quite agree with the gratuitous pile-ons, but sometimes there are legit issues with his behaviours.

by firasd 7y ago

voz_ 7y ago

> I almost never side with his haters (short-sellers, Brooklyn socialists etc) but there’s no doubt he does some objectionable things from time to time. This may be one of the oddest sentence to read on HN. What are you talking about? Also, regarding canceling someone's car purchase for writing a critical piece, why do you see that as a bad thing? or a good one?

firasd 7y ago
I guess this shows that I spend too much time on twitter but there are big conflicts on there about things he does all the time; and he is very polarizing, with legions of fans and detractors. Short sellers and left wing types are big subcultures among prominent Elon detractors.
CamperBob2 7y ago
I think a lot of us would prefer to maintain a cognitive Chinese wall between the companies we deal with and our underlying opinions about them, and would prefer that the companies have the same attitude towards us. I'd like to be able to criticize specific products and policies by Google, for example, without putting my entire Google account at risk. It seems like that's how it works with Google or even with (post-Jobs) Apple, and that's a good thing. The last time I bought a new car, though, I filled in the manufacturer's survey in painstaking detail, calling out points I liked, aspects I didn't like, and a few things I considered ridiculous or unacceptable. Apparently my responses not only made it back to the local dealer, but earned me a reputation on the sales floor as a dissatisfied customer -- or worse, an unsatisfiable one. It never occurred to them that if I were really annoyed or disappointed in the car, or had any kind of personal beef with its manufacturer, I wouldn't have wasted time filling out the survey in the first place. I answered the survey honestly and comprehensively because I plan to buy more cars from them in the future and would like my input to be considered. Companies need to understand that the opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference. When someone takes the time to criticize you in detail, you don't have to take it as a declaration of war. You can always ignore them if you don't feel their input has merit. From hearing all these anecdotes over the years, I'm under the impression that Tesla takes things a little too personally.
- fastball 7y ago
  If your overall impression of a car was negative before you got the car, surely you wouldn't go through with the purchase? There must be cars that you have a generally positive view of and therefore want to purchase, no? There are a lot of cars...
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    I don't follow you; that's not what I said at all. Then again, maybe that was the original problem. :)

IAmEveryone 7y ago

So it's "kinda complicated" because... you've tagged people disagreeing with Musk as "Brooklyn Socialist". And such "Brooklyn Socialists" are, apparently, people you can not imagine ever agreeing with, on anything. But sometimes, you also disagree with Musk. Which should be impossible, logically, if the above were true. Which is causing some sort of cognitive dissonance. And your current thinking on this breakdown in everything you hold to be true is that Elon Musk is the rare subject that's not quite as easy to judge within your simple good/evil framework that usually works so well. Have you considered that maybe it's your thinking in tired clichés that's giving you all the trouble here? Maybe Elon Musk is right on some things, wrong on others? Maybe "Brooklyn Socialists" aren't always wrong on everything? I believe I know some people you might file under that term, and some of them like cats, others don't, and there's one who doesn't care either way. Unless you categorically deny the existence of cats, it would seem impossible for you to disagree with all of them.

firasd 7y ago
No, it's the other way around--I was talking about online communities that are primed to say vacuously negative things about Musk. I'm saying I never quite agree with the gratuitous pile-ons, but sometimes there are legit issues with his behaviours.