4 ms·

Sure it does. Why wouldn't it?

parfe 16y ago
It's a full on delusional platitude to discount dealings with brutal or dictatorial countries. You seem to imply there should be consideration in who we deal with based on the political conditions which is actually not even feasible at this point. Libya just happens to be the topic of the day so it's easy to look at the .ly and say "Well that's what you get." I type this on a keyboard made in Thailand, My monitors are made in China, as is my Cisco desk phone and Droid X. So is my coffee mug. Surprisingly, my coffee cup by International Paper is Made in the USA. That's the only thing on my desk
- danenania 16y ago
  Difficult != impossible. I'm certainly not one of them, but there are people out there who actually do carefully consider where and how the things they use are made. It's pretty lame to call someone who actually tries to take responsibility for him/herself as a consumer delusional.
- nowarninglabel 16y ago
  The weak point in your assertion is that you ignore the fungibility of those items. Keyboards, monitors, desk phones, etc. are all fungible to a certain degree. Domains ending in .ly are not fungible. You can only buy a .ly domain an organization managing them for Libya. Furthermore, this isn't $10/year like many domains, but rather $75/year.
  - parfe 16y ago
    Domains are easy for you to harp on because you have nothing invested in it and any claims you make do not actually apply to you. You'll happily fund places like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and China because it's hard to avoid, but then come and post an effort-free comment about how someone else should act differently. I don't believe it's a weak point at all. I think you're creating a demarcation to eliminate the cognitive dissonance in asking someone else to expend effort while expending none yourself. Yes, cell phones are fungible, but my Droid X is not. Yes, keyboard are fungible but I can't get Dell to ship a differently branded keyboard.
    - nowarninglabel 16y ago
      Uh, no. Don't even think about getting into a "you don't do this" argument with me, because I have a list of exactly where most my spending goes, and I spent a year living in the desert on sustainable goods, don't own a smart phone, have bought everything I own at Goodwill, don't own a car, and work at Kiva. I know that might blow away your preconceptions, but think twice before harping on people that you don't know anything about. You are not a special piece of sunshine. The difference is I'm not going around like you trying to pretend like I am better than someone else, rather explaining the objective facts of the situation.
      - parfe 16y ago
        Uh, no. Don't even think about getting into a "you don't do this" argument with me, because I have a list of exactly where most my spending goes, and I spent a year living in the desert on sustainable goods, don't own a smart phone, have bought everything I own at Goodwill, don't own a car, and work at Kiva. Ok, lets address the holier than thou argument which is exactly what I'm talking about. You live in a city, have a featureless phone (still made in China no doubt! Maybe a Nokia?), played camper in the desert for a year (Sustainable as long as everyone else stays away!), buy up the affordable clothing that poor people could use, and work for a place that causes suicide thanks to usurious interest rates. That about sum it up? You going to brag about not owning a TV as well? Seriously though, I'm pretty sure my comment got the point across that I don't think I'm better than anyone else specifically because I don't give a crap about buying a shiny device from China, or paying Dell for a keyboard from Thailand. And that's why I find effort-free comments taking a moral high ground to be pointless. edit: I want to say I think Kiva is a great company implementing a great idea. I am only knocking it to say that the moral high ground is not defensible. It's always easy to spit downhill, but someone else can always spit on you. I certainly take no issue with nowarninglabel personally. Living in the desert sounds fun and educational. I just don't think there is a point where suddenly you reach a point that you can say someone else's dealings with a bad country is over the line while still claiming you're only dealing with a necessary evil. It takes the collective action of a government to actually effect change, such as NK or Cuba, and even then not so much. Free markets has done more for a free China than politics ever could.
- jrockway 16y ago
  My keyboard is "Made in Japan". It did cost more than $5, but it's also better.
  - YuriNiyazov 16y ago
    Are all the components made in Japan too?
    - zandorg 16y ago
      My projector lamp bulb is made in Japan, but the plastic housing is made in China.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      My guess is yes. It's a Topre Realforce keyboard; they have a proprietary keyswitch design that they make themselves, and the emphasis is on quality. I bet the microcontroller is mass-produced in China though. I don't really care; I avoid China for quality reasons, not for political reasons. I find that companies that manufacture their goods themselves in their own country tend to produce better products than companies that outsource the manufacturing to the lowest bidder in China. It is about cost and control; if you're willing to spend more and manage your own factories, your products are going to be better. This is not an absolute; obviously some companies do OK with China, like Apple and Dell and Lenovo.

parfe 16y ago

It's a full on delusional platitude to discount dealings with brutal or dictatorial countries. You seem to imply there should be consideration in who we deal with based on the political conditions which is actually not even feasible at this point. Libya just happens to be the topic of the day so it's easy to look at the .ly and say "Well that's what you get." I type this on a keyboard made in Thailand, My monitors are made in China, as is my Cisco desk phone and Droid X. So is my coffee mug. Surprisingly, my coffee cup by International Paper is Made in the USA. That's the only thing on my desk

danenania 16y ago
Difficult != impossible. I'm certainly not one of them, but there are people out there who actually do carefully consider where and how the things they use are made. It's pretty lame to call someone who actually tries to take responsibility for him/herself as a consumer delusional.
nowarninglabel 16y ago
The weak point in your assertion is that you ignore the fungibility of those items. Keyboards, monitors, desk phones, etc. are all fungible to a certain degree. Domains ending in .ly are not fungible. You can only buy a .ly domain an organization managing them for Libya. Furthermore, this isn't $10/year like many domains, but rather $75/year.
- parfe 16y ago
  Domains are easy for you to harp on because you have nothing invested in it and any claims you make do not actually apply to you. You'll happily fund places like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and China because it's hard to avoid, but then come and post an effort-free comment about how someone else should act differently. I don't believe it's a weak point at all. I think you're creating a demarcation to eliminate the cognitive dissonance in asking someone else to expend effort while expending none yourself. Yes, cell phones are fungible, but my Droid X is not. Yes, keyboard are fungible but I can't get Dell to ship a differently branded keyboard.
  - nowarninglabel 16y ago
    Uh, no. Don't even think about getting into a "you don't do this" argument with me, because I have a list of exactly where most my spending goes, and I spent a year living in the desert on sustainable goods, don't own a smart phone, have bought everything I own at Goodwill, don't own a car, and work at Kiva. I know that might blow away your preconceptions, but think twice before harping on people that you don't know anything about. You are not a special piece of sunshine. The difference is I'm not going around like you trying to pretend like I am better than someone else, rather explaining the objective facts of the situation.
    - parfe 16y ago
      Uh, no. Don't even think about getting into a "you don't do this" argument with me, because I have a list of exactly where most my spending goes, and I spent a year living in the desert on sustainable goods, don't own a smart phone, have bought everything I own at Goodwill, don't own a car, and work at Kiva. Ok, lets address the holier than thou argument which is exactly what I'm talking about. You live in a city, have a featureless phone (still made in China no doubt! Maybe a Nokia?), played camper in the desert for a year (Sustainable as long as everyone else stays away!), buy up the affordable clothing that poor people could use, and work for a place that causes suicide thanks to usurious interest rates. That about sum it up? You going to brag about not owning a TV as well? Seriously though, I'm pretty sure my comment got the point across that I don't think I'm better than anyone else specifically because I don't give a crap about buying a shiny device from China, or paying Dell for a keyboard from Thailand. And that's why I find effort-free comments taking a moral high ground to be pointless. edit: I want to say I think Kiva is a great company implementing a great idea. I am only knocking it to say that the moral high ground is not defensible. It's always easy to spit downhill, but someone else can always spit on you. I certainly take no issue with nowarninglabel personally. Living in the desert sounds fun and educational. I just don't think there is a point where suddenly you reach a point that you can say someone else's dealings with a bad country is over the line while still claiming you're only dealing with a necessary evil. It takes the collective action of a government to actually effect change, such as NK or Cuba, and even then not so much. Free markets has done more for a free China than politics ever could.
jrockway 16y ago
My keyboard is "Made in Japan". It did cost more than $5, but it's also better.
- YuriNiyazov 16y ago
  Are all the components made in Japan too?
  - zandorg 16y ago
    My projector lamp bulb is made in Japan, but the plastic housing is made in China.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    My guess is yes. It's a Topre Realforce keyboard; they have a proprietary keyswitch design that they make themselves, and the emphasis is on quality. I bet the microcontroller is mass-produced in China though. I don't really care; I avoid China for quality reasons, not for political reasons. I find that companies that manufacture their goods themselves in their own country tend to produce better products than companies that outsource the manufacturing to the lowest bidder in China. It is about cost and control; if you're willing to spend more and manage your own factories, your products are going to be better. This is not an absolute; obviously some companies do OK with China, like Apple and Dell and Lenovo.