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If anyone pays a million less in taxes then someone gave them a million dollars back. so yes, you are giving them something. One can argue in some irrational wa

If anyone pays a million less in taxes then someone gave them a million dollars back. so yes, you are giving them something. One can argue in some irrational way that taxes are theft so you never 'give' someone something if you reduce their taxes. At the end of that game, you have more money than you had before, gift or other political arguments aside. Someone who was going to pay a million in taxes and now has 1 mil less is not going to put their money into the economy the same what that 1000 people with moderate income, like say restaurant workers getting $1,700 would. Those people poorer will spend all that money. I'm fortunate to be a well compensated software engineer, and I pay a huge amount of taxes. I'm not out there begging for more money (via tax reductions) and then claiming it was already my money, not a gift. That's a dishonest argument.

WalterBright 7y ago
> is not going to put their money into the economy the same what that 1000 people with moderate income, like say restaurant workers getting $1,700 would. Those people poorer will spend all that money. Wealthier people spend or invest all of their money. Only drug dealers hoard cash, and that's only because they have difficulty laundering it.
- youngtaff 7y ago
  Poorer people spend all their money - they have no choice…
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    Only fools hoard cash. Nobody has a Scrooge McDuck cash vault.
- noahtallen 7y ago
  It doesn’t seem hard to argue that purchasing stocks or expensive real estate is not as beneficial for the economy as thousands of people spending the same amount in their local economies.
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    > It doesn’t seem hard to argue I agree, but it doesn't make any sense. Investing is literally putting money to work. Storing it in a mattress is not putting it to work. For example, what happens to the money when people buy real estate? The seller of that real estate gets the money. They don't hoard it, they also spend/invest it. What happens to the money you put in your bank account? The bank loans it out to people who spend/invest it. (Banks don't make money hoarding cash, they make money loaning it out.) Think about it another way. Wealthy people in general are not stupid with money, if they were they wouldn't be wealthy very long. They put it to work. That means spending it or investing it to people who spend it.
    - bawana 7y ago
      Unfortunately, when wealthy people get money they do not spend it on goods and services that employ people and drive the economY. Rather, the invest it in the financial vehicle with the highest ROI. Giving money to the rich does not trickle down to people. It goes into a holding pattern of financial engineering. That maybe why there has not been any inflation with all the quantitative easing that has been going on these past 2 decades. Instead of having more money chasing the same amount of goods and services (which would happen if all that QE hit the real economy) there is more money chasing more financial products. That is why the value of financial products(stocks,etc) has been skyrocketing for a decade.
      - aianus 7y ago
        > Giving money to the rich does not trickle down to people. All of my well-paying tech jobs have been funded by VC money from rich people and/or IPO money from rich people. Same goes (indirectly and partially) for all the people who have been selling me goods and services over those same years.
        einpoklum 7y ago
        Yeah, paying a few programmers high salaries doesn't quite count as trickling down. Let's say it's extremely-limited trickle down. > Same goes ... for all the people who have been selling me goods and services over those same years. No, it doesn't. Unless you only buy services from VC-financed startups?
- pstuart 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
refurb 7y ago
If anyone pays a million less in taxes then someone gave them a million dollars back. so yes, you are giving them something. So when I pay 35% tax and keep 65% of what remains, did the gov't give me that 65%?
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  Of course not. That's a silly argument also. But if they reduce your taxes for some special reason, like you live in a state that votes a certain way or votes a certain way, then they are giving you the tax money back.
  - refurb 7y ago
    It's not a silly argument. There is nothing special about current tax rates that say any reduction in taxes is "giving people money". In reality, you're "just taking less money from them".

WalterBright 7y ago

> is not going to put their money into the economy the same what that 1000 people with moderate income, like say restaurant workers getting $1,700 would. Those people poorer will spend all that money. Wealthier people spend or invest all of their money. Only drug dealers hoard cash, and that's only because they have difficulty laundering it.

youngtaff 7y ago
Poorer people spend all their money - they have no choice…
- WalterBright 7y ago
  Only fools hoard cash. Nobody has a Scrooge McDuck cash vault.
noahtallen 7y ago
It doesn’t seem hard to argue that purchasing stocks or expensive real estate is not as beneficial for the economy as thousands of people spending the same amount in their local economies.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  > It doesn’t seem hard to argue I agree, but it doesn't make any sense. Investing is literally putting money to work. Storing it in a mattress is not putting it to work. For example, what happens to the money when people buy real estate? The seller of that real estate gets the money. They don't hoard it, they also spend/invest it. What happens to the money you put in your bank account? The bank loans it out to people who spend/invest it. (Banks don't make money hoarding cash, they make money loaning it out.) Think about it another way. Wealthy people in general are not stupid with money, if they were they wouldn't be wealthy very long. They put it to work. That means spending it or investing it to people who spend it.
  - bawana 7y ago
    Unfortunately, when wealthy people get money they do not spend it on goods and services that employ people and drive the economY. Rather, the invest it in the financial vehicle with the highest ROI. Giving money to the rich does not trickle down to people. It goes into a holding pattern of financial engineering. That maybe why there has not been any inflation with all the quantitative easing that has been going on these past 2 decades. Instead of having more money chasing the same amount of goods and services (which would happen if all that QE hit the real economy) there is more money chasing more financial products. That is why the value of financial products(stocks,etc) has been skyrocketing for a decade.
    - aianus 7y ago
      > Giving money to the rich does not trickle down to people. All of my well-paying tech jobs have been funded by VC money from rich people and/or IPO money from rich people. Same goes (indirectly and partially) for all the people who have been selling me goods and services over those same years.
      - einpoklum 7y ago
        Yeah, paying a few programmers high salaries doesn't quite count as trickling down. Let's say it's extremely-limited trickle down. > Same goes ... for all the people who have been selling me goods and services over those same years. No, it doesn't. Unless you only buy services from VC-financed startups?
pstuart 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers

refurb 7y ago

If anyone pays a million less in taxes then someone gave them a million dollars back. so yes, you are giving them something. So when I pay 35% tax and keep 65% of what remains, did the gov't give me that 65%?

NotSammyHagar 7y ago
Of course not. That's a silly argument also. But if they reduce your taxes for some special reason, like you live in a state that votes a certain way or votes a certain way, then they are giving you the tax money back.
- refurb 7y ago
  It's not a silly argument. There is nothing special about current tax rates that say any reduction in taxes is "giving people money". In reality, you're "just taking less money from them".