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> Threatening a person with death is not the only way to violate a natural right. I agree. Discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873029 https

> Threatening a person with death is not the only way to violate a natural right. I agree. Discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873029 What is your framework for analyzing natural rights violations?

jshevek 6y ago
I strive to treat all frameworks skeptically (aside from the meta-framework of logical consistency). I see two notions of 'rights' in common usage, one (which you call a natural right) is predicated on personal liberty and the other predicated on 'ought to have'. Both are invented concepts. In practice, the first results in people taking increased responsibility for their own lives, increased empowerment, increased freedom. The other concept of rights, in practice, generally has opposite effects. Edit: In some cases 'ought to have' is nothing more than 'want to have'.
- burrows 6y ago
  > I strive to treat all frameworks skeptically (aside from the meta-framework of logical consistency). Agreed. Describe your thought process for deciding whether someone’s natural rights have been violated. > I see two notions of 'rights' in common usage, one (which you call a natural right) is predicated on personal liberty and the other predicated on 'ought to have'. Group A uses the ‘ought to have’ framework to rationalize co-opting the state in their conspiracy to plunder group B. > Both are invented concepts. All concepts are invented. I choose to use concepts that most accurately map “non-invented” reality. > In practice, the first results in people taking increased responsibility for their own lives, increased empowerment, increased freedom. The other concept of rights, in practice, generally has opposite effects. I agree with this analysis, but it’s not how I arrive at the ethical imperative to protect natural rights.

jshevek 6y ago

I strive to treat all frameworks skeptically (aside from the meta-framework of logical consistency). I see two notions of 'rights' in common usage, one (which you call a natural right) is predicated on personal liberty and the other predicated on 'ought to have'. Both are invented concepts. In practice, the first results in people taking increased responsibility for their own lives, increased empowerment, increased freedom. The other concept of rights, in practice, generally has opposite effects. Edit: In some cases 'ought to have' is nothing more than 'want to have'.

burrows 6y ago
> I strive to treat all frameworks skeptically (aside from the meta-framework of logical consistency). Agreed. Describe your thought process for deciding whether someone’s natural rights have been violated. > I see two notions of 'rights' in common usage, one (which you call a natural right) is predicated on personal liberty and the other predicated on 'ought to have'. Group A uses the ‘ought to have’ framework to rationalize co-opting the state in their conspiracy to plunder group B. > Both are invented concepts. All concepts are invented. I choose to use concepts that most accurately map “non-invented” reality. > In practice, the first results in people taking increased responsibility for their own lives, increased empowerment, increased freedom. The other concept of rights, in practice, generally has opposite effects. I agree with this analysis, but it’s not how I arrive at the ethical imperative to protect natural rights.