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> Lack of headphone jack is still unacceptable I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack in my iPhone 11. I have the Echo ear

> Lack of headphone jack is still unacceptable I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack in my iPhone 11. I have the Echo earbuds, and those have been good to great for my use cases. This continues to feel a bit like the 3.5 floppy and CD-ROM removals from the Mac: a lot of people hated it, until it was a nonissue.

SlowRobotAhead 6y ago
You aren’t in the minority. You are in the silent majority though. Most people -and really emphasizing most in terms of what people actually buy not what they complain about online- don’t care about a 3.5mm jack. It’s gone, it’s never coming back. To that end, once iPhone goes USB-C it’ll accelerate this majority non-issue.
cm2187 6y ago
That's one more battery to manage. Perhaps a better comparison is wireless mouse or keyboard.
lazyload 6y ago
> a lot of people hated it, until it was a nonissue While I got the Airpods Pro when they launched and loved them at first, the battery degradation and seemingly worse ANC performance has really irked me given their price. I've also tried using cheaper wireless earbuds, but their connectivity can be spotty. I know it's not the worst issue, but I do miss being able to take a pair of wired earbuds and use them freely between my laptop and phone and not have to worry about their battery lives.
- mackrevinack 6y ago
  how long did it take for the battery to start degrading? its odd how people never seem to mention that problem when they are taking about how great their bt headphones are I think bluetooth receivers are the way to go. you get the wireless aspect for the most part and can change track/volume without having to take out your phone. you can use it any headphones or earbuds you have with the fiio one I own, you can charge it while using it so you are never caught if you are near a power source or have an external battery chargers. and if not then at least you can quickly switch to being directly plugged in there's also a much better chance that I will be able to replace the battery at some point in the future. with bt headphones, they are so small that it would be almost impossible to take it apart successfully
  - lazyload 6y ago
    I've only really noticed the degradation in the last month or so, and it's taken maybe ~1 hour off of their initial battery life which doesn't bode well for their longevity :/ I'll look into bluetooth receivers for next time, thank you for the rec!
nucleardog 6y ago
Yeah, I hated the concept but then I picked up an iPhone 8 as the most reasonably-sized flagship I could find and willing to make sacrifices for the size. It was basically a forced upgrade to bluetooth headphones. I bought some bluetooth over-ear ANC headphones like two weeks later and it really hasn't annoyed me at all since.
iso1631 6y ago
You're probably in the majority. One can work around the lack of a 3.5mm jack, it's just a minor pain. The larger problem with modern phones is the form factor.
PunksATawnyFill 6y ago
Ugh, this is not at all a valid comparison. It's extremely tired, too. The phone MUST create analog audio signals, to drive its own speaker. Denying customers a connector to access it is petty and offensive. Compounding that offense is requiring every listening device to now incorporate redundant D/A converters. Contrary to apologists saying that this enables better quality, it in fact results in wholly unpredictable quality. Not to mention that your ears will ALWAYS require analog audio. So do billions of amplification devices around the world. There's no excuse.
vlunkr 6y ago
I don't think it's a good comparison for several reasons. 1) Those technologies were already not as heavily used when they were dropped. There are still tons of traditional headphones being manufactured and sold, even years after phones have started dropping them. 2) It's easy to leave an external drive at a desk for occasional use, it's much less convenient to carry a dongle everywhere since you likely want to use headphones on-the-go. 3) This is subjective, but floppy to cd-rom is clearly an upgrade, wireless to wired headphones is not. It adds syncing and battery life problems to an otherwise simple technology.
- dkonofalski 6y ago
  If you're carrying headphones on the go, how much less convenient is it to carry those same headphones with the adapter on them? I would argue it's exactly the same level of convenience.
  - Zak 6y ago
    Much less convenient. My wired IEM-style earbuds are smaller and lighter than most dongles I've seen.
    - dkonofalski 6y ago
      That's BS. The Apple adapter is 3 inches long. You can leave it attached and it's no different than carrying the headphones/earbuds themselves. How, in any way, is that "much less convenient"?
- wiremine 6y ago
  > Those technologies were already not as heavily used when they were dropped. I'll give you it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but having lived through all there events professionally, I can tell you that's not how it was perceived at the time. At least, not around my offices :-)
celeritascelery 6y ago
I realized I was not going to miss my headphone jack when I plugged in headphones and they didn’t work. Realized I hadn’t plugged in headphones for several months.
outworlder 6y ago
> I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack in my iPhone 11 You don't miss it until you do. When you are trying to join a meeting and your bluetooth headset absolutely refuses to work (and yes, even the fancy Airpods Pro do that occasionally), you wish you had the ability to just plug in an old-fashioned, analog headset. Which you can pull easily, with no fuss, from many devices, including computers and gaming consoles. Quick, no pairing required. No battery issues. Analog headphones are also very cheap(good if you are not in a rich country), and will always be cheaper than bluetooth headphones, as there is minimal hardware required. You can quickly pick one up even from a shady street seller and you know it will work(longevity might suffer, but again, cheap). The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard. It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone.
- trhaynes 6y ago
  Would a lightning dongle still work in these situations?
  - pstuart 6y ago
    It should, but the issue then becomes finding the damn thing :-).
- blattimwind 6y ago
  > The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard. It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone. The 2020 iPhone SE is much bigger than the 2016 iPhone SE and almost 50 % heavier. This argument seems invalid to me.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    It is thinner, though, with more hardware inside of it.
    - ianai 6y ago
leokennis 6y ago
Might be that some people still remember the Bluetooth from 2010 or so. These days, I charge my wireless headphones once a week. When I turn them on, they are connected before I have opened the music app. The connection is stable. When I stop playing sound on my phone and start sound on my laptop, they automatically switch to that. Their microphone is perfectly fine for calling people.
- qchris 6y ago
  I'm sorry, but I don't think this is the case, at least not for me. I actually own a pair of Bluetooth earphones, which I use at the gym. They do well, I don't have to worry about the cable or accidentally hitting the phone in my pocket when picking up weights. They have a reliable connection, sound is decent. But I have hundreds of dollars invested in good-quality wired headphones, plus wired earbuds, and I want to be able to use those with my phone without needing to re-spend that money. Plus, regardless of quality of the product, I'm occasionally a forgetful human. I've actually run out of juice mid-workout with my wireless set. Instead of not having music for the rest of my workout (I like music!), I simply walked over to my bag, pulled out my wired earbuds, and finished up. Not having the ability to do that is a deal-breaker for me on a phone, and it's not something that can be fixed by improving the Bluetooth tech. While this is obviously anecdotal, I don't imagine I'm the only person who feels this way.
  - ryanlol 6y ago
    > But I have hundreds of dollars invested in good-quality wired headphones, plus wired earbuds, and I want to be able to use those with my phone without needing to re-spend that money. Why not just swap in a wireless cable?
  - robotresearcher 6y ago
    > Not having the ability to do that is a deal-breaker for me The dongle is small enough to leave attached to your headphones and costs $9. It would be wasteful to include one with the phone, as most would be unused. Clearly you'd prefer a built-in jack, but you have a cheapish option to add this ability. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35...
baxuz 6y ago
Bluetooth earphones mic quality is absolute ass, and has huge delay. You can tell who has bluetooth earphones (no matter the brand) on every call.
dzhiurgis 6y ago
It’s unlikely people buying cheapest phone is going to get expensive Bluetooth headphones...
dubya 6y ago
I still have a 6s with a headphone jack. I don't use headphones much, but do plug it into our cars (admittedly not as much of an issue lately). One has no bluetooth, one has incompatible bluetooth. Neither have USB input. Both are likely to last at least ten more years. One adapter per car is not going to be the end of the world, but it is an annoyance.
nialv7 6y ago
3.5 floppy and CD-ROM are replaced by something that does everything its predecessor does and better. Whereas bluetooth headphones are not 1:1 replacement of analog headphones. e.g. they have a battery, their audio quality is worse.

SlowRobotAhead 6y ago

You aren’t in the minority. You are in the silent majority though. Most people -and really emphasizing most in terms of what people actually buy not what they complain about online- don’t care about a 3.5mm jack. It’s gone, it’s never coming back. To that end, once iPhone goes USB-C it’ll accelerate this majority non-issue.

cm2187 6y ago

That's one more battery to manage. Perhaps a better comparison is wireless mouse or keyboard.

lazyload 6y ago

> a lot of people hated it, until it was a nonissue While I got the Airpods Pro when they launched and loved them at first, the battery degradation and seemingly worse ANC performance has really irked me given their price. I've also tried using cheaper wireless earbuds, but their connectivity can be spotty. I know it's not the worst issue, but I do miss being able to take a pair of wired earbuds and use them freely between my laptop and phone and not have to worry about their battery lives.

mackrevinack 6y ago
how long did it take for the battery to start degrading? its odd how people never seem to mention that problem when they are taking about how great their bt headphones are I think bluetooth receivers are the way to go. you get the wireless aspect for the most part and can change track/volume without having to take out your phone. you can use it any headphones or earbuds you have with the fiio one I own, you can charge it while using it so you are never caught if you are near a power source or have an external battery chargers. and if not then at least you can quickly switch to being directly plugged in there's also a much better chance that I will be able to replace the battery at some point in the future. with bt headphones, they are so small that it would be almost impossible to take it apart successfully
- lazyload 6y ago
  I've only really noticed the degradation in the last month or so, and it's taken maybe ~1 hour off of their initial battery life which doesn't bode well for their longevity :/ I'll look into bluetooth receivers for next time, thank you for the rec!

nucleardog 6y ago

Yeah, I hated the concept but then I picked up an iPhone 8 as the most reasonably-sized flagship I could find and willing to make sacrifices for the size. It was basically a forced upgrade to bluetooth headphones. I bought some bluetooth over-ear ANC headphones like two weeks later and it really hasn't annoyed me at all since.

iso1631 6y ago

You're probably in the majority. One can work around the lack of a 3.5mm jack, it's just a minor pain. The larger problem with modern phones is the form factor.

PunksATawnyFill 6y ago

Ugh, this is not at all a valid comparison. It's extremely tired, too. The phone MUST create analog audio signals, to drive its own speaker. Denying customers a connector to access it is petty and offensive. Compounding that offense is requiring every listening device to now incorporate redundant D/A converters. Contrary to apologists saying that this enables better quality, it in fact results in wholly unpredictable quality. Not to mention that your ears will ALWAYS require analog audio. So do billions of amplification devices around the world. There's no excuse.

vlunkr 6y ago

I don't think it's a good comparison for several reasons. 1) Those technologies were already not as heavily used when they were dropped. There are still tons of traditional headphones being manufactured and sold, even years after phones have started dropping them. 2) It's easy to leave an external drive at a desk for occasional use, it's much less convenient to carry a dongle everywhere since you likely want to use headphones on-the-go. 3) This is subjective, but floppy to cd-rom is clearly an upgrade, wireless to wired headphones is not. It adds syncing and battery life problems to an otherwise simple technology.

dkonofalski 6y ago
If you're carrying headphones on the go, how much less convenient is it to carry those same headphones with the adapter on them? I would argue it's exactly the same level of convenience.
- Zak 6y ago
  Much less convenient. My wired IEM-style earbuds are smaller and lighter than most dongles I've seen.
  - dkonofalski 6y ago
    That's BS. The Apple adapter is 3 inches long. You can leave it attached and it's no different than carrying the headphones/earbuds themselves. How, in any way, is that "much less convenient"?
wiremine 6y ago
> Those technologies were already not as heavily used when they were dropped. I'll give you it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but having lived through all there events professionally, I can tell you that's not how it was perceived at the time. At least, not around my offices :-)

celeritascelery 6y ago

I realized I was not going to miss my headphone jack when I plugged in headphones and they didn’t work. Realized I hadn’t plugged in headphones for several months.

outworlder 6y ago

> I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack in my iPhone 11 You don't miss it until you do. When you are trying to join a meeting and your bluetooth headset absolutely refuses to work (and yes, even the fancy Airpods Pro do that occasionally), you wish you had the ability to just plug in an old-fashioned, analog headset. Which you can pull easily, with no fuss, from many devices, including computers and gaming consoles. Quick, no pairing required. No battery issues. Analog headphones are also very cheap(good if you are not in a rich country), and will always be cheaper than bluetooth headphones, as there is minimal hardware required. You can quickly pick one up even from a shady street seller and you know it will work(longevity might suffer, but again, cheap). The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard. It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone.

trhaynes 6y ago
Would a lightning dongle still work in these situations?
- pstuart 6y ago
  It should, but the issue then becomes finding the damn thing :-).
blattimwind 6y ago
> The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard. It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone. The 2020 iPhone SE is much bigger than the 2016 iPhone SE and almost 50 % heavier. This argument seems invalid to me.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  It is thinner, though, with more hardware inside of it.
  - ianai 6y ago

leokennis 6y ago

Might be that some people still remember the Bluetooth from 2010 or so. These days, I charge my wireless headphones once a week. When I turn them on, they are connected before I have opened the music app. The connection is stable. When I stop playing sound on my phone and start sound on my laptop, they automatically switch to that. Their microphone is perfectly fine for calling people.

qchris 6y ago
I'm sorry, but I don't think this is the case, at least not for me. I actually own a pair of Bluetooth earphones, which I use at the gym. They do well, I don't have to worry about the cable or accidentally hitting the phone in my pocket when picking up weights. They have a reliable connection, sound is decent. But I have hundreds of dollars invested in good-quality wired headphones, plus wired earbuds, and I want to be able to use those with my phone without needing to re-spend that money. Plus, regardless of quality of the product, I'm occasionally a forgetful human. I've actually run out of juice mid-workout with my wireless set. Instead of not having music for the rest of my workout (I like music!), I simply walked over to my bag, pulled out my wired earbuds, and finished up. Not having the ability to do that is a deal-breaker for me on a phone, and it's not something that can be fixed by improving the Bluetooth tech. While this is obviously anecdotal, I don't imagine I'm the only person who feels this way.
- ryanlol 6y ago
  > But I have hundreds of dollars invested in good-quality wired headphones, plus wired earbuds, and I want to be able to use those with my phone without needing to re-spend that money. Why not just swap in a wireless cable?
- robotresearcher 6y ago
  > Not having the ability to do that is a deal-breaker for me The dongle is small enough to leave attached to your headphones and costs $9. It would be wasteful to include one with the phone, as most would be unused. Clearly you'd prefer a built-in jack, but you have a cheapish option to add this ability. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35...

baxuz 6y ago

Bluetooth earphones mic quality is absolute ass, and has huge delay. You can tell who has bluetooth earphones (no matter the brand) on every call.

dzhiurgis 6y ago

It’s unlikely people buying cheapest phone is going to get expensive Bluetooth headphones...

dubya 6y ago

I still have a 6s with a headphone jack. I don't use headphones much, but do plug it into our cars (admittedly not as much of an issue lately). One has no bluetooth, one has incompatible bluetooth. Neither have USB input. Both are likely to last at least ten more years. One adapter per car is not going to be the end of the world, but it is an annoyance.

nialv7 6y ago

3.5 floppy and CD-ROM are replaced by something that does everything its predecessor does and better. Whereas bluetooth headphones are not 1:1 replacement of analog headphones. e.g. they have a battery, their audio quality is worse.