3 ms·

You might as well give up on the headphone jack bud. It ain't coming back.

minikites 7y ago
And give up on the screen size. The number of people who want a phone to fit in their hands and pockets is effectively zero compared to people who want huge screens to scale up content size or watch videos on their commute.
- richardwhiuk 7y ago
  If you wanted a massive screen, the iPhone 11 has been out for ages (although at a premium price point)
- svantana 7y ago
  Not only that, but as an SE owner I can attest that many apps and web pages have more or less broken UIs on its screen. And I can't blame creators for not wanting to spend effort on a form factor with small and diminishing user share.
  - ryantgtg 7y ago
    I'm the opposite type of (amateur) developer - I designed an app with an SE as my testing device. I was months into the development process before I said, "hey maybe I should look at the app on an XR." But it was pretty simple to scale the design up. I mostly just adjusted some left/right margins for the larger devices.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Well, the dimensions are still important because the zoom mode of the iPhone 6s, 7s, 8, and the new SE are the same dimensions as the regular SE.
- btown 7y ago
  And frankly this is part of Apple's premium positioning. If your primary concern is comfort of the form factor, then you're not willing to sacrifice your comfort to signal that you're using Apple's [attainable-]luxury product, and if you're not willing to sacrifice for luxury you're probably not likely to pay for it in the first place. For now, they're happy to let those people go to the Android world. We'll see if that persists into this economic recession, or if they start to move more aggressively downmarket to boost their numbers. But it's a very valid strategy.
  - codq 7y ago
    Funny you say that, since Apple was notoriously late to the large-phone game.
- iso1631 7y ago
  > The number of people who want a phone to fit in their hands and pockets is effectively zero You're not wrong, but seriously, what is wrong with the world?
recursive 7y ago
There's a difference between wanting something and having an expectation that you'll get it. For instance, I have an expectation that my phones will have a jack, which is one of the reasons my phone isn't Apple.
- dangus 7y ago
  .
  - recursive 7y ago
    > People who don't want to buy an iPhone because of it should just not buy them and stop hammering away at this dead horse. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm already not buying iPhones. The only reason I'd ever mention it anymore is when I see comments like this. > You might as well give up on the headphone jack bud. There's no reason to give up on headphone jacks. > Finally, it has to be pointed out that people who complain about this omission underestimate how much internal space a headphone jack wastes in a phone. I can't be underestimating it if I'm not estimating it. Some phones have jacks. Some don't. I buy the ones with jacks. I don't notice a difference in size.
    - deleted 7y ago
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    - deleted 7y ago
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    - barbecue_sauce 7y ago
      I don't think the headphone jack will make much of a difference to size (specifically thinness) until they can completely eliminate all ports and move completely to wireless charging. I think that's their endgame here, as ports are the biggest hurdle to the thinness which their industrial designers (and marketers) fetishize.
      - recursive 7y ago
iso1631 7y ago
I can accept a headphone jack is a premium thing, I can live without it, but it's another straw, along with the downgrade in size and cosmetics.
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  Framing the headphone jack as a "premium" feature may not match the views of others, and should not be considered an assumption to be taken for granted. Headphone jacks are not necessarily considered a premium feature by all phone users. They are by some, as is evident, but that view cannot be taken for granted — even here at HN.
  - iso1631 7y ago
    > Headphone jacks are not necessarily considered a premium feature by all phone users. Neither is a large screen, indeed I consider large portable electronics to be decidedly non-premium. A premium feature is something I'm willing to spend money on - a phone the physical dimentions of a traditional SE, with a 3.5mm jack, dual sim cards, a modern processor, and a decent amount of storage. Others may have other views on what premium is.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
My opinion continues to be as follows: As of January 2020, there is nothing any phone manufacturer has added that I would be willing to exchange my headphone jack for. Until that changes, I will either stick with my iPhone 6S, or upgrade to the best Android phone with a headphone jack available at my time of purchase. I'd like to have a phone with a better screen and a nicer camera, and I'd even be willing to pay a lot of money for one, but those features just aren't worth the loss of my headphone jack. The one thing I could see being worth my headphone jack is a folding screen, but it seems like we're still a ways away from those being durable enough. (And if some company does ever decide to put a headphone jack in a folding phone, that's the one I'll buy.)
- Nursie 7y ago
  I have a USB C->headphone dongle. Came free about three phones back. Works fine. If I need to power the phone at the same time, I have a USB-C -> headphone and USB-C dongle. I keep that one in the car. It cost about 5 bucks. Can you not do this with Apple kit?
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    You can get a Lightning adapter for iPhones. The problem is, I know myself—I will lose the adapter, likely right before a long trip. I can't keep the adapter plugged into my headphones indefinitely, because then I wouldn't be able to connect them to my other devices (multiple computers, etc).
    - derefr 7y ago
      The iPhone comes (came?) with a pair of headphones that have a Lightning jack on the end of them, in place of a headphone jack. Just use those with the iPhone and use your regular headphones with everything else. Or, if you want good headphones, then just let in the missionaries who've been telling you to accept Bluetooth as your Lord and Savior. (There are some really good Bluetooth headphones nowadays—studio-monitor quality audio, enough battery life to get through a working day, and <$200. I refused Bluetooth until headphones surpassed this bar, but they eventually did, about two years ago.)
nikofeyn 7y ago
other phones never got rid of it, such as the lg v-series, and other phones have brought it back, such as the sony xperia 1 ii. these phones are just as thin or thinner than the iPhones with the same ip rating. why is this downvoted? these are facts. i just presented some examples from other manufacturers.

And give up on the screen size. The number of people who want a phone to fit in their hands and pockets is effectively zero compared to people who want huge screens to scale up content size or watch videos on their commute.

richardwhiuk 7y ago
If you wanted a massive screen, the iPhone 11 has been out for ages (although at a premium price point)
svantana 7y ago
Not only that, but as an SE owner I can attest that many apps and web pages have more or less broken UIs on its screen. And I can't blame creators for not wanting to spend effort on a form factor with small and diminishing user share.
- ryantgtg 7y ago
  I'm the opposite type of (amateur) developer - I designed an app with an SE as my testing device. I was months into the development process before I said, "hey maybe I should look at the app on an XR." But it was pretty simple to scale the design up. I mostly just adjusted some left/right margins for the larger devices.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Well, the dimensions are still important because the zoom mode of the iPhone 6s, 7s, 8, and the new SE are the same dimensions as the regular SE.
btown 7y ago
And frankly this is part of Apple's premium positioning. If your primary concern is comfort of the form factor, then you're not willing to sacrifice your comfort to signal that you're using Apple's [attainable-]luxury product, and if you're not willing to sacrifice for luxury you're probably not likely to pay for it in the first place. For now, they're happy to let those people go to the Android world. We'll see if that persists into this economic recession, or if they start to move more aggressively downmarket to boost their numbers. But it's a very valid strategy.
- codq 7y ago
  Funny you say that, since Apple was notoriously late to the large-phone game.
iso1631 7y ago
> The number of people who want a phone to fit in their hands and pockets is effectively zero You're not wrong, but seriously, what is wrong with the world?

recursive 7y ago

There's a difference between wanting something and having an expectation that you'll get it. For instance, I have an expectation that my phones will have a jack, which is one of the reasons my phone isn't Apple.

dangus 7y ago
.
- recursive 7y ago
  > People who don't want to buy an iPhone because of it should just not buy them and stop hammering away at this dead horse. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm already not buying iPhones. The only reason I'd ever mention it anymore is when I see comments like this. > You might as well give up on the headphone jack bud. There's no reason to give up on headphone jacks. > Finally, it has to be pointed out that people who complain about this omission underestimate how much internal space a headphone jack wastes in a phone. I can't be underestimating it if I'm not estimating it. Some phones have jacks. Some don't. I buy the ones with jacks. I don't notice a difference in size.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - barbecue_sauce 7y ago
    I don't think the headphone jack will make much of a difference to size (specifically thinness) until they can completely eliminate all ports and move completely to wireless charging. I think that's their endgame here, as ports are the biggest hurdle to the thinness which their industrial designers (and marketers) fetishize.
    - recursive 7y ago

iso1631 7y ago

I can accept a headphone jack is a premium thing, I can live without it, but it's another straw, along with the downgrade in size and cosmetics.

floatingatoll 7y ago
Framing the headphone jack as a "premium" feature may not match the views of others, and should not be considered an assumption to be taken for granted. Headphone jacks are not necessarily considered a premium feature by all phone users. They are by some, as is evident, but that view cannot be taken for granted — even here at HN.
- iso1631 7y ago
  > Headphone jacks are not necessarily considered a premium feature by all phone users. Neither is a large screen, indeed I consider large portable electronics to be decidedly non-premium. A premium feature is something I'm willing to spend money on - a phone the physical dimentions of a traditional SE, with a 3.5mm jack, dual sim cards, a modern processor, and a decent amount of storage. Others may have other views on what premium is.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

My opinion continues to be as follows: As of January 2020, there is nothing any phone manufacturer has added that I would be willing to exchange my headphone jack for. Until that changes, I will either stick with my iPhone 6S, or upgrade to the best Android phone with a headphone jack available at my time of purchase. I'd like to have a phone with a better screen and a nicer camera, and I'd even be willing to pay a lot of money for one, but those features just aren't worth the loss of my headphone jack. The one thing I could see being worth my headphone jack is a folding screen, but it seems like we're still a ways away from those being durable enough. (And if some company does ever decide to put a headphone jack in a folding phone, that's the one I'll buy.)

Nursie 7y ago
I have a USB C->headphone dongle. Came free about three phones back. Works fine. If I need to power the phone at the same time, I have a USB-C -> headphone and USB-C dongle. I keep that one in the car. It cost about 5 bucks. Can you not do this with Apple kit?
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  You can get a Lightning adapter for iPhones. The problem is, I know myself—I will lose the adapter, likely right before a long trip. I can't keep the adapter plugged into my headphones indefinitely, because then I wouldn't be able to connect them to my other devices (multiple computers, etc).
  - derefr 7y ago
    The iPhone comes (came?) with a pair of headphones that have a Lightning jack on the end of them, in place of a headphone jack. Just use those with the iPhone and use your regular headphones with everything else. Or, if you want good headphones, then just let in the missionaries who've been telling you to accept Bluetooth as your Lord and Savior. (There are some really good Bluetooth headphones nowadays—studio-monitor quality audio, enough battery life to get through a working day, and <$200. I refused Bluetooth until headphones surpassed this bar, but they eventually did, about two years ago.)

nikofeyn 7y ago

other phones never got rid of it, such as the lg v-series, and other phones have brought it back, such as the sony xperia 1 ii. these phones are just as thin or thinner than the iPhones with the same ip rating. why is this downvoted? these are facts. i just presented some examples from other manufacturers.