8 ms·

"Popular design"? On the contrary. As an iPhone SE owner, this is exactly the form factor that fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) rejected as being too lar

"Popular design"? On the contrary. As an iPhone SE owner, this is exactly the form factor that fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) rejected as being too large.

calvinbhai 6y ago
4/4S/5 and the old SE are still my favourite designs / form factors (saying this despite owning 6/7/11Pro). I hope 12 will do away with rounded edges (similar to the latest iPad Pro).
NegativeLatency 6y ago
I agree with what you’re saying but it is smaller than the X size phones
Eric_WVGG 6y ago
Yup. If it’s any consolation, consistent rumors have been pointing to a new, smaller size added to the flagship lineup this fall. It will supposedly have a similar footprint to the 5 series, but with the bezel-less screen like the modern models.
- mikestew 6y ago
  Were that rumor to be true, it would be the first time in ten years I'd line up at a physical store on launch day just to make sure I got one as rapidly as possible.
- nico_h 6y ago
  Smaller as in similar sized to the iPhone 8 (5.4") instead of the iPhone 11 (6.1") or 11 PRO (5.8"). https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/iphone-12/ https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/iphone-12/ I went from an iPhone 6 to an iPhone SE instead of the 8 over the size.
  - zingar 6y ago
    A ray of hope, and so quickly crushed. Well at least I know not to get my hopes up.
  - Eric_WVGG 6y ago
    The 8 had a 4.7" screen and 6" (diagonal) footprint. The 5 had a 4" screen and 5.4" footprint. An "all-screen" phone with a 5.4" display would be have the footprint of an iPhone 5, like I said. (and that's an 8 Plus — not just an 8 — sized screen) ((still too big, imho, I want something in the iPhone 4 footprint, but I'll take what I can get))
  - stetrain 6y ago
    Smaller than the iPhone 8: https://imgix.bustle.com/inverse/17/df/7b/88/27fe/4afe/aff4/4fcd15fe9415/iphone-2020-in-the-lineup.jpeg https://imgix.bustle.com/inverse/17/df/7b/88/27fe/4afe/aff4/...
threepio 6y ago
The most perplexing part has always been the positioning of the SE as the low-price iPhone. As an SE fan, I would happily, HAPPILY pay $1000 every two years to keep getting upgraded internals in the current form factor. Yes Apple, I'm sure it's harder to fit those parts in a smaller case. That's why you should charge me more! It's not a matter of Ludditry. That form factor is ergonomically ideal for a certain kind of phone use. That's precisely why it was so successful for so long.
- save_ferris 6y ago
  I have a conspiracy theory that Apple redesigns the form factor every few years so that the "gotta have it" people are forced to upgrade to the latest and greatest device, and those with last gen's model feel that they need to keep up with the Joneses. edit: I think this is a very real, but subconscious aspect of Apple culture and it exists across all of the product lines. Phones just happen to be one of their biggest products.
  - pubstik 6y ago
    Cars were like this when they were the conspicious consumption item of choice. Every year, new designs. Not always better, but forever permutation so old parts don't fit and so that the 2 year old models already looked 'dated'. Now we have phones as our way to show our buying power.
    - mthoms 6y ago
      This is also the entire model of the fashion industry.
  - wdewind 6y ago
    I don't think it's subconscious. It shows up obviously in bezel thickness and radius of corners. When they release a new product the bezel is thick and the corners are very round. As they are able to reduce the bezel size, they also reduce the rounding of the corners. This has the effect of making the last generation look toy-like and the new generation look more serious. They have used this pattern for like 20 years across many product lines.
nfellaby 6y ago
Also, it's a slippery bugger. I've had my iPhone 8 for almost 2 years and now I'm working from home I've taken it out of it's case to fully enjoy the design. Honestly, probably easier to hold a live fish than this bloody phone.
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  TBF how many people don't use cases? At least wit rounded edges the after-case size can be smaller.
  - slantyyz 6y ago
    One could also ask the question "how many people would prefer to have a phone that didn't --need-- a case"? Given the choice between a thin phone that needs a case and a phone that is as thick as a thin phone with a case that is more durable, possibly has a headphone jack and a slightly larger battery, I would personally go for the latter.
    - therealdrag0 6y ago
      Oh for sure. But does such a phone exist? The previous design with square sides certainly wasn't that.
      - slantyyz 6y ago
        They used to be more plentiful before everyone started copying Apple. When I had an iPhone 3G and iPhone 4, I did not use a case. All I used was a vinyl decal to protect the back, and I was fine. IIRC, my Moto G and Moto X Play were fine without an add-on case. All I used on those was a tempered glass screen protector.
    - auiya 6y ago
      If a phone is designed so the screen always breaks when it hits the ground unless it's protected by a case, it would make more sense to manufacture the phone inside a case already, no? I.e. make a raised rubber bezel around the screen's edge part of the standard design.
wuliwong 6y ago
>fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) Maybe this group that you described is a small minority now?
- threepio 6y ago
  IIRC the iPhone is the most profitable consumer product ever. If anything, it should be able to support a greater diversity of models than it does. Because even the "small minority" slices are still large in absolute terms. For instance, I'd suppose a niche iPhone could still be more profitable than, say, the new Mac Pro, which is expensive and looks cool but doesn't sell that many units.
  - stetrain 6y ago
    Which is perhaps why the iPhone 12 rumors point to four new models, one of which is smaller than the iPhone 8 and one of which is larger than the current Max phones. If that's true there will be 5 distinct iPhone models released in one year, which I think is a new record for iPhone model diversity.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
smichel17 6y ago
It feels like the automotive industry's product lines. Gradually increase the size and shift it more towards luxury, then introduce a new economy product line. Maybe in 2022 we'll get the iPhone XSE.
graeme 6y ago
Apple is referring to the 6/6S/7/8 case. It is indeed extremely popular. Check out these stats from a year ago. On this app (which has a broad appeal), the 6/6S/7/8 had a 47% share. iPhone 5s/SE had 11% The old SE form factor is great! And those who like it, like it a lot. But you're clearly wrong if you take that to mean that the new SE form factor is an unpopular one. https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of-the-4-dot-7-inch-iphone/ https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of-th...
- threepio 6y ago
  By calling this model "iPhone SE", they're plainly hoping to appeal to people who already own the earlier "iPhone SE" (and probably have not upgraded in several years). Among those people, the larger form factor is unpopular. Obviously, people who like big phones already have plenty of choice.
  - graeme 6y ago
    Eh. It just stands for special edition (probably).
  - stetrain 6y ago
    When they released the last SE, it was the previous generation phone design with updated internals at a lower price point. When they released this SE, it is the previous generation phone design with updated internals at a lower price point. I don't think Apple's intention was to get all of the "I like tiny phones" people to upgrade and they somehow just missed the mark. They know who they want to buy this phone, it just doesn't happen to be one group of people who liked the old SE.
AgloeDreams 6y ago
Of course 4/5 fans wouldn't like it. They are a hilariously small and vocal minority. This is the most popular selling smartphone design in history. It's no secret that the market back in 2013 was begging for a larger screened phone and this design delivered it in a big way. It's also much smaller than current flagships.
- geddy 6y ago
  I kept my iPhone SE and was waiting for this announcement for literal years. I only just replaced it for an XS _2 weeks ago_ (refurbished off Woot!), and I knew at the time that as soon as I caved, the new SE would come out. And here we are. If only my Wall Street bets went so well. The small form factor is really nice to have. Some people don't want a gigantic phone, it's true. Maybe we are in the minority, but a huge phone is inconvenient at the times where you don't need a big screen. I still can't even unlock the thing without having my big dumb face directly in front of it. The screen is gorgeous OLED and it's terrific to watch Youtube/Netflix on in bed. The camera is incredible. A foldable phone would clearly be the most practical, but I know Apple won't ever do that, and I won't switch to Android. At this point, I just have this stupid thing attached to me at all times, and I'll have to accept it. You ever try running with a damn X/XS/XR or god forbid one of the Max phones strapped to your arm? But my point is that just because people have gotten used to bigger and bigger phones, doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate it being smaller 99% of the time. Like I just mentioned, running or even going for a walk wearing gym shorts with one of these devices in your pocket is pretty much impossible. They are too large and weigh too much, flailing around and whacking you in the knees. I have a battery charging case which admittedly adds more weight, but it literally pulls my shorts down when I go for a brisk walk with my dog. So to call those who desire a small phone a "hilariously small and vocal minority" sounds to me like "people are in denial that a bigger phone is always better" when that most certainly is not true. It has benefits but I still think they should have kept the SE2 the same size (4") as the SE. The ideal solution would be a phone that can be big OR small depending on situation. Much like the concept of a touch screen as pitched by Jobs himself during the initial iPhone reveal (context-sensitive buttons/keyboards depending on what you currently need vs. a static keyboard), you can't tell me that the vast majority wants a huge phone every hour of the day.
ianai 6y ago
I’d suggest people really pissed to buy one just to return it. They’ll get the point no other way.

"Popular design"? On the contrary. As an iPhone SE owner, this is exactly the form factor that fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) rejected as being too large.

calvinbhai 6y ago

4/4S/5 and the old SE are still my favourite designs / form factors (saying this despite owning 6/7/11Pro). I hope 12 will do away with rounded edges (similar to the latest iPad Pro).

NegativeLatency 6y ago

I agree with what you’re saying but it is smaller than the X size phones

Eric_WVGG 6y ago

Yup. If it’s any consolation, consistent rumors have been pointing to a new, smaller size added to the flagship lineup this fall. It will supposedly have a similar footprint to the 5 series, but with the bezel-less screen like the modern models.

mikestew 6y ago
Were that rumor to be true, it would be the first time in ten years I'd line up at a physical store on launch day just to make sure I got one as rapidly as possible.
nico_h 6y ago
Smaller as in similar sized to the iPhone 8 (5.4") instead of the iPhone 11 (6.1") or 11 PRO (5.8"). https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/iphone-12/ https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/iphone-12/ I went from an iPhone 6 to an iPhone SE instead of the 8 over the size.
- zingar 6y ago
  A ray of hope, and so quickly crushed. Well at least I know not to get my hopes up.
- Eric_WVGG 6y ago
  The 8 had a 4.7" screen and 6" (diagonal) footprint. The 5 had a 4" screen and 5.4" footprint. An "all-screen" phone with a 5.4" display would be have the footprint of an iPhone 5, like I said. (and that's an 8 Plus — not just an 8 — sized screen) ((still too big, imho, I want something in the iPhone 4 footprint, but I'll take what I can get))
- stetrain 6y ago
  Smaller than the iPhone 8: https://imgix.bustle.com/inverse/17/df/7b/88/27fe/4afe/aff4/4fcd15fe9415/iphone-2020-in-the-lineup.jpeg https://imgix.bustle.com/inverse/17/df/7b/88/27fe/4afe/aff4/...

threepio 6y ago

The most perplexing part has always been the positioning of the SE as the low-price iPhone. As an SE fan, I would happily, HAPPILY pay $1000 every two years to keep getting upgraded internals in the current form factor. Yes Apple, I'm sure it's harder to fit those parts in a smaller case. That's why you should charge me more! It's not a matter of Ludditry. That form factor is ergonomically ideal for a certain kind of phone use. That's precisely why it was so successful for so long.

save_ferris 6y ago
I have a conspiracy theory that Apple redesigns the form factor every few years so that the "gotta have it" people are forced to upgrade to the latest and greatest device, and those with last gen's model feel that they need to keep up with the Joneses. edit: I think this is a very real, but subconscious aspect of Apple culture and it exists across all of the product lines. Phones just happen to be one of their biggest products.
- pubstik 6y ago
  Cars were like this when they were the conspicious consumption item of choice. Every year, new designs. Not always better, but forever permutation so old parts don't fit and so that the 2 year old models already looked 'dated'. Now we have phones as our way to show our buying power.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    This is also the entire model of the fashion industry.
- wdewind 6y ago
  I don't think it's subconscious. It shows up obviously in bezel thickness and radius of corners. When they release a new product the bezel is thick and the corners are very round. As they are able to reduce the bezel size, they also reduce the rounding of the corners. This has the effect of making the last generation look toy-like and the new generation look more serious. They have used this pattern for like 20 years across many product lines.

nfellaby 6y ago

Also, it's a slippery bugger. I've had my iPhone 8 for almost 2 years and now I'm working from home I've taken it out of it's case to fully enjoy the design. Honestly, probably easier to hold a live fish than this bloody phone.

therealdrag0 6y ago
TBF how many people don't use cases? At least wit rounded edges the after-case size can be smaller.
- slantyyz 6y ago
  One could also ask the question "how many people would prefer to have a phone that didn't --need-- a case"? Given the choice between a thin phone that needs a case and a phone that is as thick as a thin phone with a case that is more durable, possibly has a headphone jack and a slightly larger battery, I would personally go for the latter.
  - therealdrag0 6y ago
    Oh for sure. But does such a phone exist? The previous design with square sides certainly wasn't that.
    - slantyyz 6y ago
      They used to be more plentiful before everyone started copying Apple. When I had an iPhone 3G and iPhone 4, I did not use a case. All I used was a vinyl decal to protect the back, and I was fine. IIRC, my Moto G and Moto X Play were fine without an add-on case. All I used on those was a tempered glass screen protector.
  - auiya 6y ago
    If a phone is designed so the screen always breaks when it hits the ground unless it's protected by a case, it would make more sense to manufacture the phone inside a case already, no? I.e. make a raised rubber bezel around the screen's edge part of the standard design.

wuliwong 6y ago

>fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) Maybe this group that you described is a small minority now?

threepio 6y ago
IIRC the iPhone is the most profitable consumer product ever. If anything, it should be able to support a greater diversity of models than it does. Because even the "small minority" slices are still large in absolute terms. For instance, I'd suppose a niche iPhone could still be more profitable than, say, the new Mac Pro, which is expensive and looks cool but doesn't sell that many units.
- stetrain 6y ago
  Which is perhaps why the iPhone 12 rumors point to four new models, one of which is smaller than the iPhone 8 and one of which is larger than the current Max phones. If that's true there will be 5 distinct iPhone models released in one year, which I think is a new record for iPhone model diversity.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

smichel17 6y ago

It feels like the automotive industry's product lines. Gradually increase the size and shift it more towards luxury, then introduce a new economy product line. Maybe in 2022 we'll get the iPhone XSE.

graeme 6y ago

Apple is referring to the 6/6S/7/8 case. It is indeed extremely popular. Check out these stats from a year ago. On this app (which has a broad appeal), the 6/6S/7/8 had a 47% share. iPhone 5s/SE had 11% The old SE form factor is great! And those who like it, like it a lot. But you're clearly wrong if you take that to mean that the new SE form factor is an unpopular one. https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of-the-4-dot-7-inch-iphone/ https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of-th...

threepio 6y ago
By calling this model "iPhone SE", they're plainly hoping to appeal to people who already own the earlier "iPhone SE" (and probably have not upgraded in several years). Among those people, the larger form factor is unpopular. Obviously, people who like big phones already have plenty of choice.
- graeme 6y ago
  Eh. It just stands for special edition (probably).
- stetrain 6y ago
  When they released the last SE, it was the previous generation phone design with updated internals at a lower price point. When they released this SE, it is the previous generation phone design with updated internals at a lower price point. I don't think Apple's intention was to get all of the "I like tiny phones" people to upgrade and they somehow just missed the mark. They know who they want to buy this phone, it just doesn't happen to be one group of people who liked the old SE.

AgloeDreams 6y ago

Of course 4/5 fans wouldn't like it. They are a hilariously small and vocal minority. This is the most popular selling smartphone design in history. It's no secret that the market back in 2013 was begging for a larger screened phone and this design delivered it in a big way. It's also much smaller than current flagships.

geddy 6y ago
I kept my iPhone SE and was waiting for this announcement for literal years. I only just replaced it for an XS _2 weeks ago_ (refurbished off Woot!), and I knew at the time that as soon as I caved, the new SE would come out. And here we are. If only my Wall Street bets went so well. The small form factor is really nice to have. Some people don't want a gigantic phone, it's true. Maybe we are in the minority, but a huge phone is inconvenient at the times where you don't need a big screen. I still can't even unlock the thing without having my big dumb face directly in front of it. The screen is gorgeous OLED and it's terrific to watch Youtube/Netflix on in bed. The camera is incredible. A foldable phone would clearly be the most practical, but I know Apple won't ever do that, and I won't switch to Android. At this point, I just have this stupid thing attached to me at all times, and I'll have to accept it. You ever try running with a damn X/XS/XR or god forbid one of the Max phones strapped to your arm? But my point is that just because people have gotten used to bigger and bigger phones, doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate it being smaller 99% of the time. Like I just mentioned, running or even going for a walk wearing gym shorts with one of these devices in your pocket is pretty much impossible. They are too large and weigh too much, flailing around and whacking you in the knees. I have a battery charging case which admittedly adds more weight, but it literally pulls my shorts down when I go for a brisk walk with my dog. So to call those who desire a small phone a "hilariously small and vocal minority" sounds to me like "people are in denial that a bigger phone is always better" when that most certainly is not true. It has benefits but I still think they should have kept the SE2 the same size (4") as the SE. The ideal solution would be a phone that can be big OR small depending on situation. Much like the concept of a touch screen as pitched by Jobs himself during the initial iPhone reveal (context-sensitive buttons/keyboards depending on what you currently need vs. a static keyboard), you can't tell me that the vast majority wants a huge phone every hour of the day.

ianai 6y ago

I’d suggest people really pissed to buy one just to return it. They’ll get the point no other way.