3 ms·

> Emacs changes that. You can stay with Emacs for a whole career, because it's so malleable and extensible it can adapt to new trends, languages, etc. If you a

> Emacs changes that. You can stay with Emacs for a whole career, because it's so malleable and extensible it can adapt to new trends, languages, etc. If you are at the point where you use emacs for everythings, then it doesn't matter anymore how alien emacs is. But until then it's a long path, and not many are willing to walk it. But even then you must accept some sacrifies and ignore that what emacs can't do. If you are with it for so long, you likely don't know and miss all the fancy new stuff, and at this point you don't need it anymore. But new user are differnt there. > You say fresh blood and concepts are spreading their influence: I don't see that as new, that's always been the case. I would not say always, there were times when development of emacs was much much more worse then today. I jsut think those darkest times are completly gone and what in the past were single drops of blood is now a steady river for the next decacde.

barrkel 7y ago
Every IDE is alien when you come into it. It took me ages to get used to Eclipse, and even then I greatly enjoyed jumping ship to IntelliJ. Visual Studio deeply irritated me with its different key bindings and editor behaviour to Borland IDEs, I ended up writing a bunch of VBA macros to take care of some of the more subtle differences, until VS stopped integrating VBA!
- slightwinder 7y ago
  > Every IDE is alien when you come into it. I don't think so. Most modern Apps follow established lingua and concepts on the fundamental and often middle levels. But Emacs is not even doing that. Simply because it was made long before this lingua and concepts were established. Vim is similar in that regard, though not much as worse as emacs, if we ignore the conceptional difference. Any complex application has it's quirks and special parts. But with emacs you have on top that even the basic parts are special and full of quirks. So instead of needing to adapts to 10% or 50% new ground, it's more like 80% or 100%, and for many this can be too much.
  - ska 7y ago
    Most modern Apps follow established lingua and concepts on the fundamental and often middle levels. You can repeat that statement in 2020, 2010, 2000, 1990 ... the only problem is that outside of a very small subset what is "established" has changed. And likely will again.
  - neutronicus 7y ago
    > Most modern Apps follow established lingua and concepts on the fundamental and often middle levels This is not at all true of the IDE pair (Visual Studio / XCode) I use at work. I do all my code editing in spacemacs and use the IDEs as heavyweight build / debug / code-search frontends (not for lack of trying to do these things in emacs, mind you). The process of doing each of those things is completely different between XCode and VS.

barrkel 7y ago

Every IDE is alien when you come into it. It took me ages to get used to Eclipse, and even then I greatly enjoyed jumping ship to IntelliJ. Visual Studio deeply irritated me with its different key bindings and editor behaviour to Borland IDEs, I ended up writing a bunch of VBA macros to take care of some of the more subtle differences, until VS stopped integrating VBA!

slightwinder 7y ago
> Every IDE is alien when you come into it. I don't think so. Most modern Apps follow established lingua and concepts on the fundamental and often middle levels. But Emacs is not even doing that. Simply because it was made long before this lingua and concepts were established. Vim is similar in that regard, though not much as worse as emacs, if we ignore the conceptional difference. Any complex application has it's quirks and special parts. But with emacs you have on top that even the basic parts are special and full of quirks. So instead of needing to adapts to 10% or 50% new ground, it's more like 80% or 100%, and for many this can be too much.
- ska 7y ago
  Most modern Apps follow established lingua and concepts on the fundamental and often middle levels. You can repeat that statement in 2020, 2010, 2000, 1990 ... the only problem is that outside of a very small subset what is "established" has changed. And likely will again.
- neutronicus 7y ago
  > Most modern Apps follow established lingua and concepts on the fundamental and often middle levels This is not at all true of the IDE pair (Visual Studio / XCode) I use at work. I do all my code editing in spacemacs and use the IDEs as heavyweight build / debug / code-search frontends (not for lack of trying to do these things in emacs, mind you). The process of doing each of those things is completely different between XCode and VS.