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As most democratic countries, France has a complete separation between the government and the justice system. This is a justice decision. The government has no

As most democratic countries, France has a complete separation between the government and the justice system. This is a justice decision. The government has nothing to do with it.

ensignavenger 7y ago
Not sure where the above poster is from, but some parts of the world use a different definition for "government" than other parts of the world. In the USA, for example, all three separate branches of "government" (Legislature, Executive, and Judicial) are considered "the government".
- Darkstryder 7y ago
  I'm French. In french "gouvernement" (french word for "government") only refers to the executive branch, and our justice system is strongly attached to its independence from the two other branches. So it seems strange to me to conflate all three branches together. Interestingly, in the French wikipedia page for "gouvernement" [1], there is this paragraph : Différence avec le terme anglais En anglais, le mot « government » s'applique non seulement au gouvernement au sens où on l'entend en français, mais aussi aux collectivités territoriales et aux administrations publiques, aussi bien centrales que locales. Le concept le plus proche en français est donc celui de collectivité publique, qui englobe les institutions politiques qui incarnent directement les pouvoirs législatif, exécutif et judiciaire, ainsi que l'ensemble des administrations qui leur sont rattachées. Which can be loosely translated as : Difference with the english term In English, the word "government" includes not only the executive governement like in French, but also all local and global public administrations. The closest concept in french is therefore "collectivité publique" which encompasses institutions for all Legislative, Executive, Judiciary powers, as well as all administrations under their authorities. I learnt something new today. [1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouvernement https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouvernement
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    IMO, the closest French term to the American English term "government" is État.
  - mikeg8 7y ago
    Thanks for sharing. I learned something too. What’s interesting to me is that, at least in America, we associate the judicial as government because we consider ourselves a “land of law” and the judicial has the responsibility of determining if the laws that “govern” how we can act have been used appropriately or if they violate our constitutional rights. As a French citizen, do you not feel governed by the laws which your courts oversee? Maybe this is purely a difference in language but it’s very fascinating to me.
    - umanwizard 7y ago
      I'm American too (and not the French person you were responding to). IMO it's just an accidental quirk of language. Laws are just as important in other developed nations too.
    - Darkstryder 7y ago
      I would have trouble talking about the difference between American and French views of the law, or even speaking for all French people for that matter. What I can say is that personally, I definitely think I live in a country ruled by law. However separation of powers means there is no single entity exercising total control on this law: the executive branch proposes changes to the law, the legislative ratifies these changes (or not), and the judiciary branch is an arbiter of what happens when the existing law meets real life situations. While the limits between the executive and legislative branches can sometimes feel porous (especially when executive and legislative are controlled by a single political party, as is the case in both France and USA at the moment), the judiciary branch always felt more insular to me from the two others, at least in my country. Another linguistic nuance to think about: in French, we are "ruled by law " but not "governed by law". In French, "gouverner" (to govern) is something that people do, not laws. This is a bit of a brain dump, sorry. I wish I would have more definitive answers for you.
syshum 7y ago
Most people consider the legal system (i refuse to call any state run court a justice system) part of the government, it is the enforcement arm of the government Executive, Legislative, Judicial, are the 3 general area's of a functioning government
- umanwizard 7y ago
  Dividing state organs into those particular three "branches of government" is, as far as I can tell, specific to US culture. Other countries divide things up in different ways. Most modern democracies do have an elected legislature, a legal system, an executive authority (whether it be an elected president or a parliamentary-style cabinet), and a career civil service (i.e., what in the US would just be called non-political-appointees in the Executive Branch), but the terms they use for these can differ, as can the exact nature of the separation of powers between them.
  - syshum 6y ago
    So you dismiss my assertion, then proceed to prove my point All modern functioning governments have the same 3 basic struture These are all part of the government. My point says nothing about how the separation of powers between those government branches function, just that they exist and are all "government" I am not sure how anyone can claim the court system of a nation is not part of "the government" which was the comment I replied to
    - umanwizard 6y ago
      > I am not sure how anyone can claim the court system of a nation is not part of "the government" Different countries have different words for things. It’s as simple as that. What we call “soccer” in the US is called “football” in the UK. It doesn’t mean they’re two different things.
umanwizard 7y ago
In American English (notably distinct in this respect from British English), the term "government" means all state organs; for example, we would consider the Supreme Court to be part of the Federal Government. So the term includes what would in many other countries be called the government, the parliament, the civil service, the judiciary, etc.

As most democratic countries, France has a complete separation between the government and the justice system. This is a justice decision. The government has nothing to do with it.

ensignavenger 7y ago

Not sure where the above poster is from, but some parts of the world use a different definition for "government" than other parts of the world. In the USA, for example, all three separate branches of "government" (Legislature, Executive, and Judicial) are considered "the government".

Darkstryder 7y ago
I'm French. In french "gouvernement" (french word for "government") only refers to the executive branch, and our justice system is strongly attached to its independence from the two other branches. So it seems strange to me to conflate all three branches together. Interestingly, in the French wikipedia page for "gouvernement" [1], there is this paragraph : Différence avec le terme anglais En anglais, le mot « government » s'applique non seulement au gouvernement au sens où on l'entend en français, mais aussi aux collectivités territoriales et aux administrations publiques, aussi bien centrales que locales. Le concept le plus proche en français est donc celui de collectivité publique, qui englobe les institutions politiques qui incarnent directement les pouvoirs législatif, exécutif et judiciaire, ainsi que l'ensemble des administrations qui leur sont rattachées. Which can be loosely translated as : Difference with the english term In English, the word "government" includes not only the executive governement like in French, but also all local and global public administrations. The closest concept in french is therefore "collectivité publique" which encompasses institutions for all Legislative, Executive, Judiciary powers, as well as all administrations under their authorities. I learnt something new today. [1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouvernement https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouvernement
- umanwizard 7y ago
  IMO, the closest French term to the American English term "government" is État.
- mikeg8 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing. I learned something too. What’s interesting to me is that, at least in America, we associate the judicial as government because we consider ourselves a “land of law” and the judicial has the responsibility of determining if the laws that “govern” how we can act have been used appropriately or if they violate our constitutional rights. As a French citizen, do you not feel governed by the laws which your courts oversee? Maybe this is purely a difference in language but it’s very fascinating to me.
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    I'm American too (and not the French person you were responding to). IMO it's just an accidental quirk of language. Laws are just as important in other developed nations too.
  - Darkstryder 7y ago
    I would have trouble talking about the difference between American and French views of the law, or even speaking for all French people for that matter. What I can say is that personally, I definitely think I live in a country ruled by law. However separation of powers means there is no single entity exercising total control on this law: the executive branch proposes changes to the law, the legislative ratifies these changes (or not), and the judiciary branch is an arbiter of what happens when the existing law meets real life situations. While the limits between the executive and legislative branches can sometimes feel porous (especially when executive and legislative are controlled by a single political party, as is the case in both France and USA at the moment), the judiciary branch always felt more insular to me from the two others, at least in my country. Another linguistic nuance to think about: in French, we are "ruled by law " but not "governed by law". In French, "gouverner" (to govern) is something that people do, not laws. This is a bit of a brain dump, sorry. I wish I would have more definitive answers for you.

syshum 7y ago

Most people consider the legal system (i refuse to call any state run court a justice system) part of the government, it is the enforcement arm of the government Executive, Legislative, Judicial, are the 3 general area's of a functioning government

umanwizard 7y ago
Dividing state organs into those particular three "branches of government" is, as far as I can tell, specific to US culture. Other countries divide things up in different ways. Most modern democracies do have an elected legislature, a legal system, an executive authority (whether it be an elected president or a parliamentary-style cabinet), and a career civil service (i.e., what in the US would just be called non-political-appointees in the Executive Branch), but the terms they use for these can differ, as can the exact nature of the separation of powers between them.
- syshum 6y ago
  So you dismiss my assertion, then proceed to prove my point All modern functioning governments have the same 3 basic struture These are all part of the government. My point says nothing about how the separation of powers between those government branches function, just that they exist and are all "government" I am not sure how anyone can claim the court system of a nation is not part of "the government" which was the comment I replied to
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    > I am not sure how anyone can claim the court system of a nation is not part of "the government" Different countries have different words for things. It’s as simple as that. What we call “soccer” in the US is called “football” in the UK. It doesn’t mean they’re two different things.

umanwizard 7y ago

In American English (notably distinct in this respect from British English), the term "government" means all state organs; for example, we would consider the Supreme Court to be part of the Federal Government. So the term includes what would in many other countries be called the government, the parliament, the civil service, the judiciary, etc.