4 ms·

Emacs is amazing. I stopped using it a few years ago because I became lazy to keep my configuration and extensions up-to-date. I was also extremely bothered by

by haolez 7y ago

Emacs is amazing. I stopped using it a few years ago because I became lazy to keep my configuration and extensions up-to-date. I was also extremely bothered by the fact that the cursor cannot live outside the current viewport and scrolling the buffer would drag the cursor as well. At the time, it seemed impossible to fix because of the way Emacs works, and the solution was something like "you are using it wrong - you need to use marks instead". But I would love to go back to it, to be honest. VSCode is very good, but Emacs is a whole other level of automation and convenience.

Theizestooke 7y ago
not sure when it was implemented, but to keep the cursor position fixed while scrolling (setq scroll-preserve-screen-position 1)
- aplaice 7y ago
  Unfortunately, that's not what OP wants. What OP wants is that when they scroll, the position of the cursor remains at the same position in the buffer (the contents), even when that means that it leaves the currently visible screen. What scroll-preserve-screen-position determines, is whether the point/cursor stays at the same visual position in the screen — i.e. if for instance your cursor was in the middle of the screen, it will stay in the middle when you scroll. OP needs the currently non-existent scroll-preserve-buffer-position.
  - taeric 7y ago
    You could just set mark when scrolling starts. Then, next cursor move jump back to mark first. Some heuristics to make it fully behave. Multiple scroll events should not modify mark, for example. Mouse click does not jump back to mark. Etc.
    - danShumway 7y ago
      The lack of "scroll-preserve-buffer-position" has been a very minor pet peeve for me for multiple years, and for some reason this very simple solution just never occurred to me. I can't believe I didn't think of this. I'm already using marks to keep track of position when I scroll, it's just all manual right now. I'll likely mess around with some hooks in my config this weekend and see if this is actually feasible, or if it comes with caveats I'm not seeing right now. I guess it would need to account for multiple windows open into the same buffer too.
      - taeric 7y ago
        I'm convinced the edge cases will dominate this code, but the general idea seems straight forward. If you get this working, please share. Not something I think I want, per se, but I could be mistaken on seeing it work. :)
    - gimboland 7y ago
      Well done. You have confirmed what they said: > and the solution was something like "you are using it wrong - you need to use marks instead".
      - taeric 7y ago
        My point was you could automate it. You were not using it wrong. Instead, my point is that you can make using it act like you want.
    - pavelmark 7y ago
      Agreed, was thinking the same.
  - elwell 7y ago
    "Instead of setting the mark in order to operate on a region, you can also use it to remember a position in the buffer (by typing C-<SPC> C-<SPC>), and later jump back there (by typing C-u C-<SPC>)." -- https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Setting-Mark.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Se...
    - frank2 7y ago
      Sure, but then every time the user does anything that might scroll the point off the screen, he has to remember to C-<SPC> C-<SPC> first. Installing a new habit that has to activate before such a wide range of editing operations can take a lot of time, during which the user is less productive because part of his attention is devoted to installing the new habit.
      - elwell 7y ago
        You're right. In practice I usually C-/ (undo) C-g / (redo) to get back to where I was; which is something you can do after you've lost your place in the file, but it assumes to previously made some change in that location.
- b3n 7y ago
  From C-h v This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in version 22.1 of Emacs. Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 20.1.
eeh 7y ago
> Emacs is amazing. I stopped using it a few years ago because I became lazy to keep my configuration and extensions up-to-date. > But I would love to go back to it, to be honest. What helps me not get bogged down in versioning, is to let someone else deal with it. For example, Debian and NixOS each package many Emacs packages. I just use their versions, and treat it like any other piece of software managed by the OS. Alternatively you could try things like Doom, which I think handles versioning.
- juped 7y ago
  Knee-Deep in Elisp?
wtetzner 7y ago
> I was also extremely bothered by the fact that the cursor cannot live outside the current viewport and scrolling the buffer would drag the cursor as well. I can see how that would be annoying. I can also see why the developers might not have noticed. When I'm in Emacs, I tend to navigate using the keyboard, which means I scroll by moving the cursor and dragging the viewport with it. So they probably added the ability to scroll without moving the cursor so Emacs would have the feature. But if they never really used it, they wouldn't have noticed the shortcomings in their implementation. Sorry for the rambling, not sure if I really had a point to make ;)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- haolez 7y ago
  If well configured, mouse support can be handful when navigating code. There is a niche editor called Acme[1] that is almost "mouse-only", where even Return won't put you in the next line :) When using Emacs, my workflow was very keyboard-centric, but sometimes navigation was a pain (even with tags and whatnot). [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M
  - wtetzner 7y ago
    Oh sure, I'm not saying it's not a useful feature. Just an observation of how different usage patterns can lead to blindspots.

by haolez 7y ago

Theizestooke 7y ago

not sure when it was implemented, but to keep the cursor position fixed while scrolling (setq scroll-preserve-screen-position 1)

aplaice 7y ago
Unfortunately, that's not what OP wants. What OP wants is that when they scroll, the position of the cursor remains at the same position in the buffer (the contents), even when that means that it leaves the currently visible screen. What scroll-preserve-screen-position determines, is whether the point/cursor stays at the same visual position in the screen — i.e. if for instance your cursor was in the middle of the screen, it will stay in the middle when you scroll. OP needs the currently non-existent scroll-preserve-buffer-position.
- taeric 7y ago
  You could just set mark when scrolling starts. Then, next cursor move jump back to mark first. Some heuristics to make it fully behave. Multiple scroll events should not modify mark, for example. Mouse click does not jump back to mark. Etc.
  - danShumway 7y ago
    The lack of "scroll-preserve-buffer-position" has been a very minor pet peeve for me for multiple years, and for some reason this very simple solution just never occurred to me. I can't believe I didn't think of this. I'm already using marks to keep track of position when I scroll, it's just all manual right now. I'll likely mess around with some hooks in my config this weekend and see if this is actually feasible, or if it comes with caveats I'm not seeing right now. I guess it would need to account for multiple windows open into the same buffer too.
    - taeric 7y ago
      I'm convinced the edge cases will dominate this code, but the general idea seems straight forward. If you get this working, please share. Not something I think I want, per se, but I could be mistaken on seeing it work. :)
  - gimboland 7y ago
    Well done. You have confirmed what they said: > and the solution was something like "you are using it wrong - you need to use marks instead".
    - taeric 7y ago
      My point was you could automate it. You were not using it wrong. Instead, my point is that you can make using it act like you want.
  - pavelmark 7y ago
    Agreed, was thinking the same.
- elwell 7y ago
  "Instead of setting the mark in order to operate on a region, you can also use it to remember a position in the buffer (by typing C-<SPC> C-<SPC>), and later jump back there (by typing C-u C-<SPC>)." -- https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Setting-Mark.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Se...
  - frank2 7y ago
    Sure, but then every time the user does anything that might scroll the point off the screen, he has to remember to C-<SPC> C-<SPC> first. Installing a new habit that has to activate before such a wide range of editing operations can take a lot of time, during which the user is less productive because part of his attention is devoted to installing the new habit.
    - elwell 7y ago
      You're right. In practice I usually C-/ (undo) C-g / (redo) to get back to where I was; which is something you can do after you've lost your place in the file, but it assumes to previously made some change in that location.
b3n 7y ago
From C-h v This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in version 22.1 of Emacs. Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 20.1.

eeh 7y ago

> Emacs is amazing. I stopped using it a few years ago because I became lazy to keep my configuration and extensions up-to-date. > But I would love to go back to it, to be honest. What helps me not get bogged down in versioning, is to let someone else deal with it. For example, Debian and NixOS each package many Emacs packages. I just use their versions, and treat it like any other piece of software managed by the OS. Alternatively you could try things like Doom, which I think handles versioning.

juped 7y ago
Knee-Deep in Elisp?

wtetzner 7y ago

> I was also extremely bothered by the fact that the cursor cannot live outside the current viewport and scrolling the buffer would drag the cursor as well. I can see how that would be annoying. I can also see why the developers might not have noticed. When I'm in Emacs, I tend to navigate using the keyboard, which means I scroll by moving the cursor and dragging the viewport with it. So they probably added the ability to scroll without moving the cursor so Emacs would have the feature. But if they never really used it, they wouldn't have noticed the shortcomings in their implementation. Sorry for the rambling, not sure if I really had a point to make ;)

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
haolez 7y ago
If well configured, mouse support can be handful when navigating code. There is a niche editor called Acme[1] that is almost "mouse-only", where even Return won't put you in the next line :) When using Emacs, my workflow was very keyboard-centric, but sometimes navigation was a pain (even with tags and whatnot). [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M
- wtetzner 7y ago
  Oh sure, I'm not saying it's not a useful feature. Just an observation of how different usage patterns can lead to blindspots.