4 ms·

What are the main examples you have in mind of users who can use emacs but can’t install packages?

throwaway7234 7y ago
I can offer one data point. The company I'm an on-site (well, usually) contractor for, whose network I use at work, proxies web traffic over HTTP. It's encrypted at the proxy for HTTPS, but everything outbound from the internal network is effectively plain text. Emacs doesn't allow packages to be installed over HTTP, so in order to use the package repositories, I have to use my phone as a hotspot.
- zlalanne 7y ago
  If you have sufficient disk space (~5GB), you can also keep an elpa-mirror on your machine. https://github.com/d12frosted/elpa-mirror https://github.com/d12frosted/elpa-mirror
  - tikej 7y ago
    Didn’t know about this possibility. It’s a good idea to archive it locally and update regularly (just in case something happens with internet ;). Is the same possible for melpa?
- Myrmornis 7y ago
  > Emacs doesn't allow packages to be installed over HTTP Are you sure about that? I think that you can specify http as usual in the URL: (add-to-list 'package-archives '("melpa" . "http://melpa.org/packages/") t) See the instructions here which go to an annoyingly extreme level of ugliness to set the protocol in a paranoid fashion: https://melpa.org/#/getting-started https://melpa.org/#/getting-started
tikej 7y ago
Probably someone on the remote machine with restricted or no internet connection and admin privileges. It happens e.g. on company or academic clusters. It is much easier to ask admin to install emacs and use defaults than to ask to install emacs and packages (and resolve problems that may happen on the way).
nickdrozd 7y ago
I use Emacs at work, where unapproved external packages are prohibited. If Python mode were pushed out to a repo, I would basically be forced to use another editor. Another example might be using Emacs on a device without network access. If we relax "can't" to include "won't", then there are casual users who might want to try Emacs but can't be bothered to set up package archives, etc. Such a user will start it up, say "What, no Python mode?", and switch to something else.
- simtel20 7y ago
  Is there a powerful resistance to approving elisp packages that aren't default? Could you lay the groundwork with whoever maintains the list of approved packages by asking about approving certain versions of emacs packages that you use, and make your current setup much richer at the same time (e.g. by adding lsp-mode, ms-lsp, flycheck and whatever else you may be doing without now).
- craigsmansion 7y ago
  What is really an "external package" in emacs? There should be nothing stopping someone just copying and pasting an entire elisp source text from a website into scratch, evaluate the buffer on the spot, and have the exact same functionality as installing the package would. I'm not saying that retrieving an external package isn't easier, but due to emacs' nature there isn't really sort of delineation based on how the elisp got into the emacs.
  - Myrmornis 7y ago
    It's more complicated than that: Emacs packages should be thought of the same as any other language's packages. They might comprise multiple files, and it's possible that their performance will be noticeably compromised if they are not byte-compiled. Installing Emacs packages should be done with the package manager.
- Myrmornis 7y ago
  Having never worked at a company like that I'm curious how it works. Is it - No http/https connections - No write access to home directory - Internal prohibition against downloading/using something which is a "software package" ?

I can offer one data point. The company I'm an on-site (well, usually) contractor for, whose network I use at work, proxies web traffic over HTTP. It's encrypted at the proxy for HTTPS, but everything outbound from the internal network is effectively plain text. Emacs doesn't allow packages to be installed over HTTP, so in order to use the package repositories, I have to use my phone as a hotspot.

zlalanne 7y ago
If you have sufficient disk space (~5GB), you can also keep an elpa-mirror on your machine. https://github.com/d12frosted/elpa-mirror https://github.com/d12frosted/elpa-mirror
- tikej 7y ago
  Didn’t know about this possibility. It’s a good idea to archive it locally and update regularly (just in case something happens with internet ;). Is the same possible for melpa?
Myrmornis 7y ago
> Emacs doesn't allow packages to be installed over HTTP Are you sure about that? I think that you can specify http as usual in the URL: (add-to-list 'package-archives '("melpa" . "http://melpa.org/packages/") t) See the instructions here which go to an annoyingly extreme level of ugliness to set the protocol in a paranoid fashion: https://melpa.org/#/getting-started https://melpa.org/#/getting-started

tikej 7y ago

Probably someone on the remote machine with restricted or no internet connection and admin privileges. It happens e.g. on company or academic clusters. It is much easier to ask admin to install emacs and use defaults than to ask to install emacs and packages (and resolve problems that may happen on the way).

nickdrozd 7y ago

I use Emacs at work, where unapproved external packages are prohibited. If Python mode were pushed out to a repo, I would basically be forced to use another editor. Another example might be using Emacs on a device without network access. If we relax "can't" to include "won't", then there are casual users who might want to try Emacs but can't be bothered to set up package archives, etc. Such a user will start it up, say "What, no Python mode?", and switch to something else.

simtel20 7y ago
Is there a powerful resistance to approving elisp packages that aren't default? Could you lay the groundwork with whoever maintains the list of approved packages by asking about approving certain versions of emacs packages that you use, and make your current setup much richer at the same time (e.g. by adding lsp-mode, ms-lsp, flycheck and whatever else you may be doing without now).
craigsmansion 7y ago
What is really an "external package" in emacs? There should be nothing stopping someone just copying and pasting an entire elisp source text from a website into scratch, evaluate the buffer on the spot, and have the exact same functionality as installing the package would. I'm not saying that retrieving an external package isn't easier, but due to emacs' nature there isn't really sort of delineation based on how the elisp got into the emacs.
- Myrmornis 7y ago
  It's more complicated than that: Emacs packages should be thought of the same as any other language's packages. They might comprise multiple files, and it's possible that their performance will be noticeably compromised if they are not byte-compiled. Installing Emacs packages should be done with the package manager.
Myrmornis 7y ago
Having never worked at a company like that I'm curious how it works. Is it - No http/https connections - No write access to home directory - Internal prohibition against downloading/using something which is a "software package" ?