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This is a one sided view of fitness. e.g. there is zero focus on cardio. Would be interesting to see one of these guys do a light 5 mile run. Look into real wor

This is a one sided view of fitness. e.g. there is zero focus on cardio. Would be interesting to see one of these guys do a light 5 mile run. Look into real world training: running, hard hiking with a pack, mountain biking, swimming/surfing. These types of exercise have been the most rewarding for me in terms of skeletal, muscle and cardio fitness. The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time.

jrockway 16y ago
The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time. Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's not boring.
- gaius 16y ago
  Hmm, well it's more subtle than that. Running on a "real" surface, that is constantly changing gradient and direction, works a lot of ancillary muscles for stability and balance that you don't get on a treadmill. The cardio workout might be the same. But if you trained for a Marathon only on a treadmill, you'd be in for a bit of a surprise when you tried a real one. Without the core strength you'd lose your form, your running would be less efficient, you'd get exhausted much more quickly.
  - mikepurvis 16y ago
    Also air resistance, which is zero when you're stationary.
  - nollidge 16y ago
    The other thing I've noticed is that when running on a treadmill, it may seem like your legs are making roughly the same motion as real running, but you're not pushing yourself forward, just upward. Your legs definitely don't have to work as hard pushing your body around.
    - krschultz 16y ago
      My girlfriend is currently training for a half marathon and was told to never ever run on the treadmill with it set flat, so she goes with a fairly decent incline (not running up hill, but definitely should get some resistance) the entire time at a minimum.
  - notahacker 16y ago
    maybe I'm in a minority, but I've always found the way the treadmill cuts short my naturally long stride at any reasonable pace to require far more body adjustment than minor undulations in the ground (which I adjust for naturally and subconsciously, without worrying that I'm going to misjudge the pace the machine fixes for me) Suffice to say I strongly prefer the real surface.
- mmaunder 16y ago
  5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. LOL. Go run outside. You have no idea what you're talking about.
  - jobu 16y ago
    Depends on where you live. A hilly area can kick your ass a lot harder than a treadmill, but my current neighborhood is flat and it compares pretty evenly to a treadmill run.
    - dasil003 16y ago
      It does not. Running on the ground you push yourself forward. On a treadmill the amount of work you are doing can vary quite a bit by technique (ie. how much contact you are making with the treadmill) because you are not actually propelling yourself.
      - smackfu 16y ago
        A treadmill makes me run at a pace that is faster than I would run outside though.
        dasil003 16y ago
        Sure, your benefit is still proportional to your effort, but if you look at the odometer and think that you've ran 10 miles just because 10 miles of belt passed underneath you, then you really need to run outside once in a while.
      - jongraehl 16y ago
        Crazy. Mark a dot on the treadmill track. How is the person moving relative to that dot? How is the air in the room moving relative to that dot? That's basically all that can distinguish between running at constant speed on a treadmill vs. on level (non-treadmill) ground. If you're running 8mph on a treadmill, it's like running 8mph on level ground, with an 8mph tailwind. How do you fail so badly at physics?
- jfager 16y ago
  That's not at all true. In addition to the lack of variation in stride that gaius points out, it's almost impossible to not cheat on a treadmill and let it do some of the work for you, and there's no wind resistance. Treadmills have their place - for warming up a bit before some other kind of exercise, or as a replacement when the weather or traveling keeps you indoors - but they just aren't equivalent to real running. 5 minutes on a trail will tell you that.
- michaeldhopkins 16y ago
  My experience has been that 20 minutes on a treadmill is equivalent to about 15 minutes outside.
- brown9-2 16y ago
  This is in no way true. Running on a treadmill is significantly easier than running the same distance on an outside surface.
- neutronicus 16y ago
  Coaches discourage running on a treadmill - getting used to the ground moving under your feet makes you slow.
- ajscherer 16y ago
  No particular mental effort beyond that needed to abstain from committing suicide due to the extreme monotony of a treadmill run. That said, the treadmill can be a fine tool for training. It allows you to totally ignore weather conditions, and actually for speed workouts it can have the advantage of forcing you to stay on pace. A common rule of thumb is that a 1% incline on the treadmill compensates for the lack of wind resistance. I can't stand the damn things myself, but there are runners, including some guys I know personally, who train exclusively using the treadmill and still do well in races up to marathon distance (I've never heard of any ultramarathoners who train exclusively on the treadmill).
  - vilya 16y ago
    That's interesting, because personally I find running outside boring whereas on a treadmill I can use the time & distance readouts to help me stay motivated (e.g I'll just keep going until the timer gets to the next multiple of 5 minutes... ok, now I'll keep going until the next whole kilometre... and so on). Each to their own, I guess.
- cubix 16y ago
  Staying in the gym is also a hell of a lot better when it's -15 outside with a mean wind and snow on the ground.
- istari 16y ago
  This is something I always wondered about. I get FAR more tired running 2 real miles than 2 "miles" on a treadmill. On a treadmill, both of your feet are in the air for a significant amount of time, and you're not being carried backwards. Yet, I bet that distance still gets counted.
  - jongraehl 16y ago
    The only significant differences are constrained stride length, and wind resistance (which definitely matters even before 10mph).
keeptrying 16y ago
I once trained for a 5k race by doing just squats. I beat most of my "cardio" friends. When you start squatting above your BW then you'll be just as out of breath after 8 reps as after a full-on 5k run. Your heart will beat just as fast, and youll be sweating about the same. Also squats will improve your bone density. Don't be fooled that suffers like Laird get their physique from surfing. All of them dead lift and squat. The best thing about squats would be that they "insure" your knees for old age. Do them right and they are easily the best exercise ever invented IMHO.
- tjogin 16y ago
  Squats, dead lifts, bench presses, those are the Big Three. That's what you absolutely need to do, and if you do them it is where 90% of your results will come from. It's also the only exercises you need to ever do. Having said that, if you "like" some other exercise, like cable chest presses, dumbbell flyes, standing barbell bicep curls, crunches, or whatever, then fine do them (I do), but do so knowing that the Big Three should be the core of your exercise, and whatever else is complimentary.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    What about pullups? The big three you mention don't seem to hit your upper back, biceps or shoulders much. (I'm a novice, genuinely curious.)
    - keeptrying 16y ago
      I would do chinups/pullups/pushups/dumbell-presses instead of bench press. If you have long arms then bench press can lead to shoulder injuries as you approach 1xBW if you dont do it right. Lots of great info at t-nation.com .
      - tjogin 16y ago
        Of those, only the dumbbell presses are even an alternative to the bench press. Dumbbell presses are fine. But bench presses are better, and if you do them, you don't need to do dumbbell presses (but do, if you like them, I do too, as a complimentary exercise). Injuries are nothing to scoff at of course, and you should always make sure to not put on more weight than you can safely manage. Regardless of exercise method.
tlear 16y ago
If he added running about 50k a week at least I would agree with him. Running is one of those base things that anyone can do, and it is almost free.

jrockway 16y ago

The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time. Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's not boring.

gaius 16y ago
Hmm, well it's more subtle than that. Running on a "real" surface, that is constantly changing gradient and direction, works a lot of ancillary muscles for stability and balance that you don't get on a treadmill. The cardio workout might be the same. But if you trained for a Marathon only on a treadmill, you'd be in for a bit of a surprise when you tried a real one. Without the core strength you'd lose your form, your running would be less efficient, you'd get exhausted much more quickly.
- mikepurvis 16y ago
  Also air resistance, which is zero when you're stationary.
- nollidge 16y ago
  The other thing I've noticed is that when running on a treadmill, it may seem like your legs are making roughly the same motion as real running, but you're not pushing yourself forward, just upward. Your legs definitely don't have to work as hard pushing your body around.
  - krschultz 16y ago
    My girlfriend is currently training for a half marathon and was told to never ever run on the treadmill with it set flat, so she goes with a fairly decent incline (not running up hill, but definitely should get some resistance) the entire time at a minimum.
- notahacker 16y ago
  maybe I'm in a minority, but I've always found the way the treadmill cuts short my naturally long stride at any reasonable pace to require far more body adjustment than minor undulations in the ground (which I adjust for naturally and subconsciously, without worrying that I'm going to misjudge the pace the machine fixes for me) Suffice to say I strongly prefer the real surface.
mmaunder 16y ago
5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. LOL. Go run outside. You have no idea what you're talking about.
- jobu 16y ago
  Depends on where you live. A hilly area can kick your ass a lot harder than a treadmill, but my current neighborhood is flat and it compares pretty evenly to a treadmill run.
  - dasil003 16y ago
    It does not. Running on the ground you push yourself forward. On a treadmill the amount of work you are doing can vary quite a bit by technique (ie. how much contact you are making with the treadmill) because you are not actually propelling yourself.
    - smackfu 16y ago
      A treadmill makes me run at a pace that is faster than I would run outside though.
      - dasil003 16y ago
        Sure, your benefit is still proportional to your effort, but if you look at the odometer and think that you've ran 10 miles just because 10 miles of belt passed underneath you, then you really need to run outside once in a while.
    - jongraehl 16y ago
      Crazy. Mark a dot on the treadmill track. How is the person moving relative to that dot? How is the air in the room moving relative to that dot? That's basically all that can distinguish between running at constant speed on a treadmill vs. on level (non-treadmill) ground. If you're running 8mph on a treadmill, it's like running 8mph on level ground, with an 8mph tailwind. How do you fail so badly at physics?
jfager 16y ago
That's not at all true. In addition to the lack of variation in stride that gaius points out, it's almost impossible to not cheat on a treadmill and let it do some of the work for you, and there's no wind resistance. Treadmills have their place - for warming up a bit before some other kind of exercise, or as a replacement when the weather or traveling keeps you indoors - but they just aren't equivalent to real running. 5 minutes on a trail will tell you that.
michaeldhopkins 16y ago
My experience has been that 20 minutes on a treadmill is equivalent to about 15 minutes outside.
brown9-2 16y ago
This is in no way true. Running on a treadmill is significantly easier than running the same distance on an outside surface.
neutronicus 16y ago
Coaches discourage running on a treadmill - getting used to the ground moving under your feet makes you slow.
ajscherer 16y ago
No particular mental effort beyond that needed to abstain from committing suicide due to the extreme monotony of a treadmill run. That said, the treadmill can be a fine tool for training. It allows you to totally ignore weather conditions, and actually for speed workouts it can have the advantage of forcing you to stay on pace. A common rule of thumb is that a 1% incline on the treadmill compensates for the lack of wind resistance. I can't stand the damn things myself, but there are runners, including some guys I know personally, who train exclusively using the treadmill and still do well in races up to marathon distance (I've never heard of any ultramarathoners who train exclusively on the treadmill).
- vilya 16y ago
  That's interesting, because personally I find running outside boring whereas on a treadmill I can use the time & distance readouts to help me stay motivated (e.g I'll just keep going until the timer gets to the next multiple of 5 minutes... ok, now I'll keep going until the next whole kilometre... and so on). Each to their own, I guess.
cubix 16y ago
Staying in the gym is also a hell of a lot better when it's -15 outside with a mean wind and snow on the ground.
istari 16y ago
This is something I always wondered about. I get FAR more tired running 2 real miles than 2 "miles" on a treadmill. On a treadmill, both of your feet are in the air for a significant amount of time, and you're not being carried backwards. Yet, I bet that distance still gets counted.
- jongraehl 16y ago
  The only significant differences are constrained stride length, and wind resistance (which definitely matters even before 10mph).

keeptrying 16y ago

I once trained for a 5k race by doing just squats. I beat most of my "cardio" friends. When you start squatting above your BW then you'll be just as out of breath after 8 reps as after a full-on 5k run. Your heart will beat just as fast, and youll be sweating about the same. Also squats will improve your bone density. Don't be fooled that suffers like Laird get their physique from surfing. All of them dead lift and squat. The best thing about squats would be that they "insure" your knees for old age. Do them right and they are easily the best exercise ever invented IMHO.

tjogin 16y ago
Squats, dead lifts, bench presses, those are the Big Three. That's what you absolutely need to do, and if you do them it is where 90% of your results will come from. It's also the only exercises you need to ever do. Having said that, if you "like" some other exercise, like cable chest presses, dumbbell flyes, standing barbell bicep curls, crunches, or whatever, then fine do them (I do), but do so knowing that the Big Three should be the core of your exercise, and whatever else is complimentary.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  What about pullups? The big three you mention don't seem to hit your upper back, biceps or shoulders much. (I'm a novice, genuinely curious.)
  - keeptrying 16y ago
    I would do chinups/pullups/pushups/dumbell-presses instead of bench press. If you have long arms then bench press can lead to shoulder injuries as you approach 1xBW if you dont do it right. Lots of great info at t-nation.com .
    - tjogin 16y ago
      Of those, only the dumbbell presses are even an alternative to the bench press. Dumbbell presses are fine. But bench presses are better, and if you do them, you don't need to do dumbbell presses (but do, if you like them, I do too, as a complimentary exercise). Injuries are nothing to scoff at of course, and you should always make sure to not put on more weight than you can safely manage. Regardless of exercise method.

tlear 16y ago

If he added running about 50k a week at least I would agree with him. Running is one of those base things that anyone can do, and it is almost free.