4 ms·

Why is it reckless? The WHO has arguably made the problem worse. Wouldn’t you want to defund any organization that makes a problem worse?

by MR4D 7y ago

henearkr 7y ago
The WHO did not make the problem worse, because their statement just said that no human-human link was found yet, but that of course did not prevent scientists from launching new studies or continuing current studies to fill this gap. From a scientist perspective, to the contrary, stating the absence of knowledge would provoke the need for more studies.
- AlchemistCamp 7y ago
  > The WHO did not make the problem worse, because their statement just said that no human-human link was found yet Not true. Taiwan had already warned them of human to human transmission in December. The WHO's failure to report it has cost the world many lives and a great deal of suffering: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2020/03/25/2003733321 https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2020/03/25/2...
  - henearkr 7y ago
    Oh, I saw your other reply of my previous comment. Well, you're right that physicians directly emailing other physicians is a good source for being cautious about China declarations, especially under an authoritarian government not allowing other forms of publications. But still, from the point of view of WHO, it was not clear that there was such a pressure on experts. They only had China's studies in hands. PS: well, maybe there was something more political going on. You seem well documented and I believe you. But they had to play with China on their side. Changing that means huge reforms, of not only WHO but UN. And reforms, not deletions...
    - AlchemistCamp 7y ago
      This is a different link and, as it mentions, Taiwan's CDC has email receipts of its communications with the WHO. In an outbreak situation, the correct response is NOT to say, "until you've published a study we'll tell the world there's no evidence of human-to-human transmission". If multiple doctors are getting sick from their patients, there IS evidence of human-to-human transmission. If those doctors are in an authoritarian country that controls the flow of information, but they've emailed their colleagues abroad, that information itself must be shared by any responsible health organization.
      - henearkr 7y ago
        That makes sense. Did Taiwan try to publish directly? On social media or other.
        AlchemistCamp 7y ago
        Yes. The local CDC is on Twitter and Facebook.
  - simonh 7y ago
    This is true, absolutely, but had no material effect on the world's ability to respond to the situation. Suppose they had reported possible human transmission in December, instead of early January, would that have made any difference to Trump calling it a hoax on February 28?
    - jki275 7y ago
      > Trump calling it a hoax on February 28? cite please.
      - colejohnson66 7y ago
        Not directly calling the virus a box, but: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-re...
        jki275 7y ago
        The question was rhetorical, it's well known that he didn't, and the statement is false.
Gibbon1 7y ago
And replace it with what? Nothing?
simonh 7y ago
You’re seriously telling me that the work they are doing right now World wide is making the situation worse? This is classic Trump. Instead of taking effective action, he’s picking a fight because he knows his supporters will rally round, his opponents will be enraged and now it’s a partisan bun fight. De-funding the WHO is an appalling attack on the worlds ability to fight this pandemic. What is Trumps plan to actually help solve this problem?
JeremyNT 7y ago
> Why is it reckless? The WHO has arguably made the problem worse. Ah, this is a typical conservative response. "The government responded ineffectively!" they will say, to which the only possible response is to simply start dismantling government institutions and replace them with their corporate friends. Then, when the next crisis occurs, and the even further weakened public institutions struggle to respond, they can remind us that they were right all along - it is the institutions that have failed us! Etc etc, into the downward spiral. "Starve the beast" is not a strategy that can possibly result in reform, and I have trouble believing that anybody advocating it believes it in good faith.

Why is it reckless? The WHO has arguably made the problem worse. Wouldn’t you want to defund any organization that makes a problem worse?

by MR4D 7y ago

Why is it reckless? The WHO has arguably made the problem worse. Wouldn’t you want to defund any organization that makes a problem worse?

henearkr 7y ago

The WHO did not make the problem worse, because their statement just said that no human-human link was found yet, but that of course did not prevent scientists from launching new studies or continuing current studies to fill this gap. From a scientist perspective, to the contrary, stating the absence of knowledge would provoke the need for more studies.

AlchemistCamp 7y ago
> The WHO did not make the problem worse, because their statement just said that no human-human link was found yet Not true. Taiwan had already warned them of human to human transmission in December. The WHO's failure to report it has cost the world many lives and a great deal of suffering: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2020/03/25/2003733321 https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2020/03/25/2...
- henearkr 7y ago
  Oh, I saw your other reply of my previous comment. Well, you're right that physicians directly emailing other physicians is a good source for being cautious about China declarations, especially under an authoritarian government not allowing other forms of publications. But still, from the point of view of WHO, it was not clear that there was such a pressure on experts. They only had China's studies in hands. PS: well, maybe there was something more political going on. You seem well documented and I believe you. But they had to play with China on their side. Changing that means huge reforms, of not only WHO but UN. And reforms, not deletions...
  - AlchemistCamp 7y ago
    This is a different link and, as it mentions, Taiwan's CDC has email receipts of its communications with the WHO. In an outbreak situation, the correct response is NOT to say, "until you've published a study we'll tell the world there's no evidence of human-to-human transmission". If multiple doctors are getting sick from their patients, there IS evidence of human-to-human transmission. If those doctors are in an authoritarian country that controls the flow of information, but they've emailed their colleagues abroad, that information itself must be shared by any responsible health organization.
    - henearkr 7y ago
      That makes sense. Did Taiwan try to publish directly? On social media or other.
      - AlchemistCamp 7y ago
        Yes. The local CDC is on Twitter and Facebook.
- simonh 7y ago
  This is true, absolutely, but had no material effect on the world's ability to respond to the situation. Suppose they had reported possible human transmission in December, instead of early January, would that have made any difference to Trump calling it a hoax on February 28?
  - jki275 7y ago
    > Trump calling it a hoax on February 28? cite please.
    - colejohnson66 7y ago
      Not directly calling the virus a box, but: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-re...
      - jki275 7y ago
        The question was rhetorical, it's well known that he didn't, and the statement is false.

Gibbon1 7y ago

And replace it with what? Nothing?

simonh 7y ago

You’re seriously telling me that the work they are doing right now World wide is making the situation worse? This is classic Trump. Instead of taking effective action, he’s picking a fight because he knows his supporters will rally round, his opponents will be enraged and now it’s a partisan bun fight. De-funding the WHO is an appalling attack on the worlds ability to fight this pandemic. What is Trumps plan to actually help solve this problem?

JeremyNT 7y ago

> Why is it reckless? The WHO has arguably made the problem worse. Ah, this is a typical conservative response. "The government responded ineffectively!" they will say, to which the only possible response is to simply start dismantling government institutions and replace them with their corporate friends. Then, when the next crisis occurs, and the even further weakened public institutions struggle to respond, they can remind us that they were right all along - it is the institutions that have failed us! Etc etc, into the downward spiral. "Starve the beast" is not a strategy that can possibly result in reform, and I have trouble believing that anybody advocating it believes it in good faith.