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Eh. There are documented dogfights out there that are dramatic, they even made a show about it with the actual pilots: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfights

by kitteh 6y ago

Eh. There are documented dogfights out there that are dramatic, they even made a show about it with the actual pilots: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfights_(TV_series) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfights_(TV_series) That said, there are countless stories about US pilots locking up a bandit who has a RWR system that scares them into turning around (they'd see/hear that they were receiving high PRF - being locked on). That happened a lot more in the 70s and after as US air to air radar got better (look down shoot down radar didn't exist until the 70s too).

sandworm101 6y ago
>> a bandit who has a RWR system that scares them into turning around They weren't necessarily scared. Such maneuvers are stock counters to potential radar-guided missiles. (1) Missile ranges depend on closing speed. You can launch against something coming towards you sooner than something heading away. By turning around, or just sideways, the mig can instantly get outside of missile range. (2) Doppler radar measures relative velocity. Turning around/sideways reduces relative velocity. That can break a radar lock. If you can hear the American jet coming via the RWR, turning sideways may allow you to disappear from radar and draw your enemy closer. It would be wrong to assume that such maneuvers are done out of fear.
- ARandomerDude 6y ago
  Ah, Falcon 4.0, I miss you so much. This "beaming" maneuver was in the manual, along with all kinds of other goodies. Most fun a 13 year old could have.
- kitteh 6y ago
  I'm well familiar with Doppler notching and missile evasion. However in the accounts I was speaking about it was cases where they turned around and departed the area. Follow up conversations with some of these crews (which included Iraqi pilots, Libyan pilots to name a few) said that once they had seen the transition from being hit from search radar to acquisition radar they didn't want to provoke any further and chose to exit the engagement. Remember that during the 1980s the Phoenix AIM-54 had a scary reputation for it's range as well as the later AIM-120.

by kitteh 6y ago

sandworm101 6y ago

>> a bandit who has a RWR system that scares them into turning around They weren't necessarily scared. Such maneuvers are stock counters to potential radar-guided missiles. (1) Missile ranges depend on closing speed. You can launch against something coming towards you sooner than something heading away. By turning around, or just sideways, the mig can instantly get outside of missile range. (2) Doppler radar measures relative velocity. Turning around/sideways reduces relative velocity. That can break a radar lock. If you can hear the American jet coming via the RWR, turning sideways may allow you to disappear from radar and draw your enemy closer. It would be wrong to assume that such maneuvers are done out of fear.

ARandomerDude 6y ago
Ah, Falcon 4.0, I miss you so much. This "beaming" maneuver was in the manual, along with all kinds of other goodies. Most fun a 13 year old could have.
kitteh 6y ago
I'm well familiar with Doppler notching and missile evasion. However in the accounts I was speaking about it was cases where they turned around and departed the area. Follow up conversations with some of these crews (which included Iraqi pilots, Libyan pilots to name a few) said that once they had seen the transition from being hit from search radar to acquisition radar they didn't want to provoke any further and chose to exit the engagement. Remember that during the 1980s the Phoenix AIM-54 had a scary reputation for it's range as well as the later AIM-120.