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A far better "hack" would be LVT+get rid of zoning and other restrictions on building. That would actually reduce market prices instead of requiring a subsidy.
by ikeboy 7y ago
A far better "hack" would be LVT+get rid of zoning and other restrictions on building.
That would actually reduce market prices instead of requiring a subsidy.
>Compassionate government
Nope, a government driving up market prices by restricting new construction is not compassionate just because they tried to help a handful of families buy below market.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoThis is in Houston. They already have some of the most lax zoning in the country. You're free to your opinion this is "inefficient" and causes "perverse incentives". In the meantime, people get homes they otherwise wouldn't. Some of us consider that a win.
- ikeboy 7y agoThe article is about land trusts in general, not just the one in the headline. Regardless, the correct solution is to implement LVT. Without that, almost by definition market prices will be higher than they should be. The market failure is the government permitting people to buy and sell land. A small trust buying up some land and taking it off the market doesn't fix the underlying failure.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoAnd like a carbon tax, a land value tax will never be implemented in the US due to entrenched interests. > The market failure is the government permitting people to buy and sell land. A small trust buying up some land and taking it off the market doesn't fix the underlying failure. This argument is hopeless. Good chat.
- ikeboy 7y agoFine, you want a policy that's better than the one described in OP but feasible on a small scale? Have the city buy up land and rent it out at market price. Allow any kind of housing to be built on top of it, have no requirements for income etc. Then use the profit this produces over the current system to directly subsidise low income households. This is more efficient and has the same subsidy effect.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- gowld 7y agoThe article is literally about preventing speculation by capping resale prices. That's pretty much equivalent to preventing buying and selling.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ikeboy 7y agoPreventing buying and selling of housing is actively harmful. Land shouldn't be sold, it should all be owned by the state and leased out at market value; equivalently, implement LVT at close to 100% of land value. The state setting a maximum sale price and subsidizing demand is not that.
- WalterBright 7y agoUh, my property tax bill has two amounts on it - the tax on the land value and the tax on the building. The bill is the sum.
- ikeboy 7y agoThe portion of tax on the building serves to discourage density. What's your point?
- WalterBright 7y ago> What's your point? That there already is a land value tax.
- ikeboy 7y agoGreat. Now get rid of the housing value tax and increase LVT to 95% or so.
- WalterBright 7y ago> The market failure is the government permitting people to buy and sell land. There are plenty of historical examples where people weren't permitted to buy and sell land. It never worked out very well.
- ikeboy 7y agoWhat historical examples of negative consequences of government control of land and renting it out to the highest bidder are you thinking of? Georgism has a solid theoretical foundation.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- WalterBright 7y agoRenters have little incentive to take care of it, and the government tends to not take care of it, either. The result is blight. It often happens with "the projects" where the government builds housing and rents it out.
- KozmoNau7 7y agoThat is caused by putting disenfranchised, poor and troubled people there, and no longer giving a damn about them once they have a simple roof over their heads. Renters can have exactly as much community spirit and take as much pride in their dwellings as anyone, but it requires that they're treated with a modicum of respect, which unfortunately is exceedingly rare in lardlordism.
- WalterBright 7y ago> Renters can have exactly as much community spirit and take as much pride in their dwellings as anyone No, they don't. Talk to hotel staff sometime about how their guests treat the rooms, for just one example. Or how people rent cars and go race them. Or how sensible people avoid buying former car rentals. Anybody in any form of rental business knows it isn't true.
- mikem170 7y ago>This in Houston. They already have some of the most lax zoning in the country. Houston has zoning, they just don't call it zoning, and it's a mess. https://kinder.rice.edu/2015/09/08/forget-what-youve-heard-houston-really-does-have-zoning-sort-of https://kinder.rice.edu/2015/09/08/forget-what-youve-heard-h... The parent was talking about the government getting out of the way and letting people build denser neighborhoods. Japan has a good zoning model, based on population density and flexible land use. In the U.S. zoning is used to restrict the supply of housing. Building codes exist for safety. What is the reason for zoning? To protect to investment of current homeowners and screw everyone else?
- toomuchtodo 7y agoZoning is so that a meat packing plant isn’t built next to a residential neighborhood. I won’t disagree that there are challenges with zoning, where upzoning is an uphill battle (I myself face these challenges as a real estate investor who prefers to build multi family properties in an effort to create affordable housing), but I understand why it exists and have an appreciation for the intent behind it.
- enaaem 7y agoBut what if I want to build a home next to a meatpacking plant? The Japanese zoning system designates nuisance levels to land. The lowest level only allows residential and the highest allows industrial. The general principal is that you are allowed build a low nuisance building in a high nuisance zone, but not vice versa.
- harimau777 7y agoIs there an alternative to zoning that still protects people from externalities such as someone building a loud nightclub or a dangerous chemical plant next to someone's home?
- bluGill 7y agoBlanket noises ordancenes. If I'm not a nightclub but I blast loud music am I okay? If I want to build a nightclub with good sound insulation so you can't hear why should you care?
- KozmoNau7 7y agoA nightclub doesn't just produce noise. Nightclubs attract crowds, some of which will be rowdy, drunk and belligerent. They will urinate and defecate in doorways, cause property damage and may be violent, depending on the type of crowd the club attracts.