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The amount of autonomy and legal recourse of a private corporate entity in China compared to the United States. While the US does not have a great track record

by mey 7y ago

The amount of autonomy and legal recourse of a private corporate entity in China compared to the United States. While the US does not have a great track record (Room 641A, National Security Letters, v-chip, putting export controls on strong encryption, etc) entities like the EFF and ACLU, plus corporate entities have successfully and repeatedly pushed back. I am not an expert on Chinese corporate entities, but my anecdotal observations from working in companies with arms in China has been it's always a very careful process to not annoy the government, as it means losing everything with little recourse. Edit: The implication is that, if the government of China, was exceptionally interested placing a backdoor in the software of a Tencent system, they may not be able to reasonably object. Where if the FBI came to Apple, (and we know they have) they can say no. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_d...

SCdF 7y ago
> Where if the FBI came to Apple, (and we know they have) they can say no I thought the point was they couldn't say no? Hence the warrant canaries and things like that. And the NSA hooking directly into Google's internal fibre etc etc. To be clear I think your points are interesting from the perspective of "the chinese government is morally worse and I'm worried about those implications", I'm just trying to work out as someone who doesn't live there (but is clearly OK participating in their economy, I buy endless chinese goods) how that affects me concretely.
- mey 7y ago
  I'm going to side step the morality of the respective governments. I am a US Citizen, I have opinions, bias and an incomplete picture. My point is, I think it is harder to de-tangle a Chinese corporation's objectives from China (the governments) objectives than say a corporation in the US or EU. There are stronger laws and separation of controls (on the books and in practice) in those regions. Do I trust the US government? Not terribly. Do I trust the US government more than China as a US Citizen? Yes. Should you? I don't know. Defending against nation state targeting as an individual may be an impossible task unless you follow in Richard Stallman's footsteps, in which case, the conversation about LoL installing a kernel driver in Windows is very much outside your concerns :)
freeopinion 7y ago
FBI? If the FBI came to Tencent, Tencent could say no just as well as Apple can say no. If the Chinese government came to Apple, could they say no any easier than Tencent?
- mey 7y ago
  The crux of capitalism, what will you compromise for revenue. That's the point though, ownership and exposure to China's influence. Is Apple in a position where they can't say no to China? If not, should I trust their product?

by mey 7y ago

SCdF 7y ago

> Where if the FBI came to Apple, (and we know they have) they can say no I thought the point was they couldn't say no? Hence the warrant canaries and things like that. And the NSA hooking directly into Google's internal fibre etc etc. To be clear I think your points are interesting from the perspective of "the chinese government is morally worse and I'm worried about those implications", I'm just trying to work out as someone who doesn't live there (but is clearly OK participating in their economy, I buy endless chinese goods) how that affects me concretely.

mey 7y ago
I'm going to side step the morality of the respective governments. I am a US Citizen, I have opinions, bias and an incomplete picture. My point is, I think it is harder to de-tangle a Chinese corporation's objectives from China (the governments) objectives than say a corporation in the US or EU. There are stronger laws and separation of controls (on the books and in practice) in those regions. Do I trust the US government? Not terribly. Do I trust the US government more than China as a US Citizen? Yes. Should you? I don't know. Defending against nation state targeting as an individual may be an impossible task unless you follow in Richard Stallman's footsteps, in which case, the conversation about LoL installing a kernel driver in Windows is very much outside your concerns :)

freeopinion 7y ago

FBI? If the FBI came to Tencent, Tencent could say no just as well as Apple can say no. If the Chinese government came to Apple, could they say no any easier than Tencent?

mey 7y ago
The crux of capitalism, what will you compromise for revenue. That's the point though, ownership and exposure to China's influence. Is Apple in a position where they can't say no to China? If not, should I trust their product?