4 ms·

>What a strange statement. "We support their right to criticize their working conditions, only actually we don't at all" Without seeing the actual policy, my g

by jasode 7y ago

>What a strange statement. "We support their right to criticize their working conditions, only actually we don't at all" Without seeing the actual policy, my guess is that "criticizing" is something employees can do internally within the company. However, you can't post public tweets about it. In other words, "don't air dirty laundry". This type of distinction is very common in typical employee policies. Likewise, it's common for a CEO for VP to say to the employees "I have an open door policy so if you see something wrong, tell me." -- but common sense should tell you that the CEO does not mean for the employee to post an "open letter to the CEO" on Twitter or NYTimes for the public read as well. I know of no well-known company that encourages employees to publicly criticize their workplace.

alexandercrohde 7y ago
Uh great... yeah just walk right into the CEO's office and tell them what's wrong... 0% chance of that coming back to affect your career....
- bavell 7y ago
  With a good CEO, your career might actually get a bump if you give them honest and helpful feedback.
  - __abc 7y ago
    In my experience those CEO's are extremely rare ... don't know how common my experience has been.
    - mtnGoat 7y ago
      I feel like its a myth... no one i know works in a place where anyone can walk into the CEOs office, be brutally honest and not have some time of blowback in one way or another(or really any level). All those who tried have not faired well.
      - achillesheels 7y ago
        I was booted out of my first employer within 90 days of stepping into the company's "open-door CEO" office to bring up the subject of scheduling time with my boss (directly reporting to the CEO) to discuss a job promotion. My boss was the first one who brought it up and I took the initiative. Even typing this right now I feel dumb. But I had no idea how sensitive people are with retaining their status in an artificial hierarchy. I do now!
        ignoramous 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism_in_the_workplace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism_in_the_workpl...
  - save_ferris 7y ago
    good CEOs create situations that allow people to provide feedback in a safe and supportive way, through things like town halls, anonymous feedback messaging, etc. so employees aren't forced into high-stakes interactions like marching into their office.
    - greedo 7y ago
      A Townhall meeting is in no way a safe and supportive place to provide feedback. Only anodyne questions are asked as people generally know better than to tell the Emperor he has no clothes...
      - wolco 7y ago
        If you get a survey about your boss always answer positively. Chances are they are using you as a way to get that person out and using you as cover. No matter what your feelings for the boss realize that they usually want to cut the department or reduce the voice of your department. Life will not be better after.
  - greedo 7y ago
    If the company is larger than 500 people, the CEO doesn't have the bandwidth for this type of feedback. He'll either figure out that his reports (CTO or lower) are not doing their jobs, or that you're a troublemaker. Odds are he has hired the CTO and had significant influence on hiring those below the CTO. So he's invested in that CTO. You, you're some rando coming up talking about stuff that makes you look incompetent.
    - Psyladine 7y ago
      >You, you're some rando coming up talking about stuff that makes you look incompetent. Or worse, threatening to make his choices look incompetent.
    - bavell 7y ago
      True, you shouldn't expect the CEO of a large company to listen to the FNG or scrub who bypasses the chain of command. But a good CEO will recognize and reward those who bring them valuable input through the proper channels.
- lnsru 7y ago
  Did exactly this! Just it wasn’t CEO, only a Vice President. I mentioned bugs and lack of testing in a polite way, also offered how test system could be designed to automate testing. There was a committee created to do inspection of my code and to analyze, why I do so many bugs. I’ll never tell anybody, how to operate better after this “incident”. The months were hell and I am pretty sure, I’ll be fired during next downsizing round.
  - S_A_P 7y ago
    First, good on you for trying to make a difference. Second, without painting with too broad of a brush here I would say that depending on the size of your organization this is the exact wrong layer to complain to. The VPs can be in the spot where they want to be perceived as running the show so the C levels can take care of the vision. If there was a CTO at your company that may have been the better move. Either way, Im sorry to hear that things went south after complaining and it sounds like it just got bruised egos involved.
    - oblio 7y ago
      It's almost never the right move. The CTO doesn't know you, but he does know the people who report to him.
      - outworlder 7y ago
        > It's almost never the right move. The CTO doesn't know you, but he does know the people who report to him. And they will come down on those people HARD! "Why is your employee complaining to me? Why aren't you doing your job?" And down the line it comes crashing down. And meteor lands on your face.
        wolco 7y ago
        Come down hard on his people? Probably come down hard on your manager.
  - ignoramous 7y ago
- BinaryBullet 7y ago
  The best version I remember hearing about is a janitor pitching the idea of Flaming Hot Cheetos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/23/the-flamin-hot-cheetos-movie-how-a-frito-lay-janitor-created-one-of-americas-most-popular-snacks/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/2...
deleted 7y ago
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by jasode 7y ago

alexandercrohde 7y ago

Uh great... yeah just walk right into the CEO's office and tell them what's wrong... 0% chance of that coming back to affect your career....

bavell 7y ago
With a good CEO, your career might actually get a bump if you give them honest and helpful feedback.
- __abc 7y ago
  In my experience those CEO's are extremely rare ... don't know how common my experience has been.
  - mtnGoat 7y ago
    I feel like its a myth... no one i know works in a place where anyone can walk into the CEOs office, be brutally honest and not have some time of blowback in one way or another(or really any level). All those who tried have not faired well.
    - achillesheels 7y ago
      I was booted out of my first employer within 90 days of stepping into the company's "open-door CEO" office to bring up the subject of scheduling time with my boss (directly reporting to the CEO) to discuss a job promotion. My boss was the first one who brought it up and I took the initiative. Even typing this right now I feel dumb. But I had no idea how sensitive people are with retaining their status in an artificial hierarchy. I do now!
      - ignoramous 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism_in_the_workplace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism_in_the_workpl...
- save_ferris 7y ago
  good CEOs create situations that allow people to provide feedback in a safe and supportive way, through things like town halls, anonymous feedback messaging, etc. so employees aren't forced into high-stakes interactions like marching into their office.
  - greedo 7y ago
    A Townhall meeting is in no way a safe and supportive place to provide feedback. Only anodyne questions are asked as people generally know better than to tell the Emperor he has no clothes...
    - wolco 7y ago
      If you get a survey about your boss always answer positively. Chances are they are using you as a way to get that person out and using you as cover. No matter what your feelings for the boss realize that they usually want to cut the department or reduce the voice of your department. Life will not be better after.
- greedo 7y ago
  If the company is larger than 500 people, the CEO doesn't have the bandwidth for this type of feedback. He'll either figure out that his reports (CTO or lower) are not doing their jobs, or that you're a troublemaker. Odds are he has hired the CTO and had significant influence on hiring those below the CTO. So he's invested in that CTO. You, you're some rando coming up talking about stuff that makes you look incompetent.
  - Psyladine 7y ago
    >You, you're some rando coming up talking about stuff that makes you look incompetent. Or worse, threatening to make his choices look incompetent.
  - bavell 7y ago
    True, you shouldn't expect the CEO of a large company to listen to the FNG or scrub who bypasses the chain of command. But a good CEO will recognize and reward those who bring them valuable input through the proper channels.
lnsru 7y ago
Did exactly this! Just it wasn’t CEO, only a Vice President. I mentioned bugs and lack of testing in a polite way, also offered how test system could be designed to automate testing. There was a committee created to do inspection of my code and to analyze, why I do so many bugs. I’ll never tell anybody, how to operate better after this “incident”. The months were hell and I am pretty sure, I’ll be fired during next downsizing round.
- S_A_P 7y ago
  First, good on you for trying to make a difference. Second, without painting with too broad of a brush here I would say that depending on the size of your organization this is the exact wrong layer to complain to. The VPs can be in the spot where they want to be perceived as running the show so the C levels can take care of the vision. If there was a CTO at your company that may have been the better move. Either way, Im sorry to hear that things went south after complaining and it sounds like it just got bruised egos involved.
  - oblio 7y ago
    It's almost never the right move. The CTO doesn't know you, but he does know the people who report to him.
    - outworlder 7y ago
      > It's almost never the right move. The CTO doesn't know you, but he does know the people who report to him. And they will come down on those people HARD! "Why is your employee complaining to me? Why aren't you doing your job?" And down the line it comes crashing down. And meteor lands on your face.
      - wolco 7y ago
        Come down hard on his people? Probably come down hard on your manager.
- ignoramous 7y ago
BinaryBullet 7y ago
The best version I remember hearing about is a janitor pitching the idea of Flaming Hot Cheetos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/23/the-flamin-hot-cheetos-movie-how-a-frito-lay-janitor-created-one-of-americas-most-popular-snacks/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/2...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]