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> But I suspect there are no more developers that cannot code than there are lawyers that don't know the law... I suspect that's wrong. To get a job practicing

> But I suspect there are no more developers that cannot code than there are lawyers that don't know the law... I suspect that's wrong. To get a job practicing law, someone generally needs to have passed their state's bar exam. Similarly for other licensed professions like doctors, CPAs, civil engineers, etc. But anyone can legally call themselves a software developer.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago
Exactly. IT is the far west. There are few educational requirements, and hiring laws specific to our craft. It's a very young field, unlike medicine or architecture, and we just beginning to establish professional standards on the job. The fact most people see it as magic and can't evaluate it at all doesn't help. Anecdotally, I've seen many programmers that can't code. Remember that 2 dev projects out of 3 fail, for a clusters of reasons. And when it doesn't, there is sometimes a few hard kernel of devs that are doing most of the important part of the job, fixing other's mess on the fly, or just plainly doing it for them. So those bad programmers can go from failure to failure, and never be blamed for it. But honestly, it it weren't that way, I couldn't have entered the field. I've been given my chance more than once, and I've screwed up many times, before even becoming a decent professional.
c3534l 7y ago
And if you want to be a firefighter, you have to pass fitness tests and climb ladders and stuff. If you want to be an actor or musician, you have to audition. The employer wants to know what you know. I guess maybe some people think of these these tests as pass/fail where if you forget a semicolon you "failed" the whiteboard interview. Any job where you don't have a degree or professional certification guaranteeing a bare minimum of knowledge will ask you to demonstrate your abilities and what you know. The fact that you don't do that in some professions is more of an indication of how hard it is to test without a comprehensive knowledge-based examination. Software development is not unique. If you say you're qualified for the job, you have to demonstrate it somehow.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago

Exactly. IT is the far west. There are few educational requirements, and hiring laws specific to our craft. It's a very young field, unlike medicine or architecture, and we just beginning to establish professional standards on the job. The fact most people see it as magic and can't evaluate it at all doesn't help. Anecdotally, I've seen many programmers that can't code. Remember that 2 dev projects out of 3 fail, for a clusters of reasons. And when it doesn't, there is sometimes a few hard kernel of devs that are doing most of the important part of the job, fixing other's mess on the fly, or just plainly doing it for them. So those bad programmers can go from failure to failure, and never be blamed for it. But honestly, it it weren't that way, I couldn't have entered the field. I've been given my chance more than once, and I've screwed up many times, before even becoming a decent professional.

c3534l 7y ago

And if you want to be a firefighter, you have to pass fitness tests and climb ladders and stuff. If you want to be an actor or musician, you have to audition. The employer wants to know what you know. I guess maybe some people think of these these tests as pass/fail where if you forget a semicolon you "failed" the whiteboard interview. Any job where you don't have a degree or professional certification guaranteeing a bare minimum of knowledge will ask you to demonstrate your abilities and what you know. The fact that you don't do that in some professions is more of an indication of how hard it is to test without a comprehensive knowledge-based examination. Software development is not unique. If you say you're qualified for the job, you have to demonstrate it somehow.