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"And many modern economists endorse a minimum wage, as eugenicists did then, but with even less regard for the harm it causes." Come on, you know the idea of a

"And many modern economists endorse a minimum wage, as eugenicists did then, but with even less regard for the harm it causes." Come on, you know the idea of a minimum wage is pretty widely accepted as a good idea by a lot of people, including (most? edit: apparently majority, but not by much) economists. You can't just phrase something as if it was widely accepted as true and make it so. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely allowed to voice your opinion on this, but the way you've phrased it strikes me as being rather intellectually dishonest.

logicchains 7y ago
>Come on, you know the idea of a minimum wage is pretty widely accepted as a good idea by a lot of people, including (most?) economists. From a recent study https://cei.org/blog/what-do-economists-think-about-minimum-wage https://cei.org/blog/what-do-economists-think-about-minimum-... : "A new poll of professional economists finds 74 percent of respondents opposing a $15 per hour minimum wage—and nearly a mirror image of non-economist public opinion, which is nearly a mirror opposite. 84 percent believe it would have a negative impact on youth employment levels. 43 percent favor eliminating the minimum wage outright. Only 12 percent of respondents identify as Republicans, which is roughly representative of the profession as a whole, with 35 percent identifying as Democratic and 46 percent as independents."
- p1necone 7y ago
  That sounds like it supports my statement? 74% oppose a specific increase, but only 43% oppose having a minimum wage. (That wording is ambiguous as to whether that's 43% of 100% or 43% of 74%, but both are < 50%)
  - logicchains 7y ago
    I suppose it's the language: it would support "accepted by a majority of economists", but I don't think 57% support counts as "pretty widely accepted as a good idea by... most economists".
    - p1necone 7y ago
      Which is why I said "most?". I knew I wasn't sure so I communicated that. Sorry if it wasn't obvious enough.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - p1necone 7y ago
        Also all of these sources people are citing are from shadowy "conservative think tanks", got anything with a little less blatantly obvious bias? epionline.org is especially laughably biased and cherry picked.
xvedejas 7y ago
I dunno, we might want to start getting some sources in on this. This is the one article I've seen beforehand that discusses how much economists endorse the idea of a minimum wage ($15/hr specifically) and it casts doubt on your very confident tone. I don't really know what to believe, maybe more polls are necessary. https://epionline.org/studies/survey-of-us-economists-on-a-15-federal-minimum-wage/ https://epionline.org/studies/survey-of-us-economists-on-a-1...
- p1necone 7y ago
  I don't think I was being very confident - there was a reason I said "most?". However I'm fairly certain enough economists agree with the idea of a minimum wage that stating that it's a bad idea as if that's just accepted to be the truth is a little odd.
  - xvedejas 7y ago
    I sincerely don't know. I have one economist friend and he's iffy on the subject, claiming that minimum wage helps certain low-income groups and hurts other low-income groups. Based on that I don't even think you could categorize him as thinking it's a good or bad idea. That begins to step beyond the realm of economics and into politics or philosophy.
- p1necone 7y ago
  Also wowww, research that this employment policies institute was involved in might not be the most unbiased source: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Employment_Policies_Institute https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Employment_Policies_In...

logicchains 7y ago

>Come on, you know the idea of a minimum wage is pretty widely accepted as a good idea by a lot of people, including (most?) economists. From a recent study https://cei.org/blog/what-do-economists-think-about-minimum-wage https://cei.org/blog/what-do-economists-think-about-minimum-... : "A new poll of professional economists finds 74 percent of respondents opposing a $15 per hour minimum wage—and nearly a mirror image of non-economist public opinion, which is nearly a mirror opposite. 84 percent believe it would have a negative impact on youth employment levels. 43 percent favor eliminating the minimum wage outright. Only 12 percent of respondents identify as Republicans, which is roughly representative of the profession as a whole, with 35 percent identifying as Democratic and 46 percent as independents."

p1necone 7y ago
That sounds like it supports my statement? 74% oppose a specific increase, but only 43% oppose having a minimum wage. (That wording is ambiguous as to whether that's 43% of 100% or 43% of 74%, but both are < 50%)
- logicchains 7y ago
  I suppose it's the language: it would support "accepted by a majority of economists", but I don't think 57% support counts as "pretty widely accepted as a good idea by... most economists".
  - p1necone 7y ago
    Which is why I said "most?". I knew I wasn't sure so I communicated that. Sorry if it wasn't obvious enough.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - p1necone 7y ago
      Also all of these sources people are citing are from shadowy "conservative think tanks", got anything with a little less blatantly obvious bias? epionline.org is especially laughably biased and cherry picked.

xvedejas 7y ago

I dunno, we might want to start getting some sources in on this. This is the one article I've seen beforehand that discusses how much economists endorse the idea of a minimum wage ($15/hr specifically) and it casts doubt on your very confident tone. I don't really know what to believe, maybe more polls are necessary. https://epionline.org/studies/survey-of-us-economists-on-a-15-federal-minimum-wage/ https://epionline.org/studies/survey-of-us-economists-on-a-1...

p1necone 7y ago
I don't think I was being very confident - there was a reason I said "most?". However I'm fairly certain enough economists agree with the idea of a minimum wage that stating that it's a bad idea as if that's just accepted to be the truth is a little odd.
- xvedejas 7y ago
  I sincerely don't know. I have one economist friend and he's iffy on the subject, claiming that minimum wage helps certain low-income groups and hurts other low-income groups. Based on that I don't even think you could categorize him as thinking it's a good or bad idea. That begins to step beyond the realm of economics and into politics or philosophy.
p1necone 7y ago
Also wowww, research that this employment policies institute was involved in might not be the most unbiased source: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Employment_Policies_Institute https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Employment_Policies_In...