6 ms·

Let’s disrupt the logic that’s driving Americans apart

25 points by raleighm 7y ago

keiferski 7y ago
Pretty much a non-article. The only argument presented seems to be in favor of restoring the old gatekeepers: because although many of us (early 2000s “us”) had imagined that digital technologies would empower citizens by facilitating collective action and eroding the control of elite gatekeepers, many of us have had to accept that, without those gatekeepers and with horizontal networks, users become readily exploitable by algorithms and bad actors. ...because the traditional media has always been trustworthy, right? Whatever solution there is to growing polarization, it isn't going to come from the establishment.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  I thought this was a funny conclusion to come to as well. Let the organizations (known to be a mouthpiece of governments) shape public opinion and be the trusted gatekeeper to our knowledge? No thanks. Personally I’ll take the present situation, where average people can learn uncomfortable truths about our society.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
fallingfrog 7y ago
The issue here is that the center has become decidedly rotten; something has to give, and everyone knows that on a political, social, and economic level, there is no longer any normal to go back to. The good times were never a product of our national unity or our figuring out the best way to do things. They were a historical phenomenon arising from a specific set of circumstances. You can’t just go back to how things were in the 90’s or 80’s, that time is gone.
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
I don’t really see a simple way out of the present situation. Maybe there was once a time when people tolerated the “wrong” views of others, but that’s long past. Now the hegemony is enforced in many ways. Social firing campaigns being one of the popular ones.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  Social firing for the wrong views was always a thing. Before even the HUAC - just ask any unwed mother who was fired or look at "morality" clauses. The Supreme Court accepted special pleading of "because drugs" in the "Bong Hits for Jesus" case of school jurisdiction. It is just a matter of whose ox is being gored - listen closely and you will hear the long echoes of "Welcome to my world.".
qnsi 7y ago
Waste of time article. Perpetuates myths that are inaccurate like with the information silos.
robomartin 7y ago
In some ways one part of the solution is simple: Pass laws that deliver consequences for lying and disseminating false information or fabricating narratives. Note I am NOT identifying any one political party as the culprit. They are all at fault here. These laws should apply to everyone, from traditional news networks to politicians and individuals. I know the situation is a bit different with social media. If the argument is that all they do is provide a means for interpersonal communication with minimal or no supervision, then, OK, the laws apply to individual users and perhaps only apply to social networks if users are allowed to post and exist anonymously. This isn't a new concept. Human life is about reacting to consequences. From learning how to walk to learning not to touch hot pots or when to cross the street. The most basic of human behaviors are self regulated due to very clear undesirable consequences we learn about along the way. Politics and the media are absolutely rotten. They both hide behind the abject lack of consequences. Both politicians and media outlets can lie and fabricate with absolute impunity. I won't list examples here, suffice it to say we could easily fill thousands of hours of videos with examples of both media and politics (on all sides of political thought) lying or misguiding the public with impunity. This is a forcing function these people do not have. And, because of that, they can say and do almost as they please without consequences. Taking things out of context, fabricating "facts" and threading ridiculous conclusions are every-day realities. Sadly, the Internet and Social media has expanded this exponentially through massively greater access to all of it and the ability for people to interconnect and interact like never before. If we implement consequences for this most insidious problem we will be treated to a very different kind of politics and politicians as well as media that actually does the homework necessary to report well researched facts rather than distortions and politically aligned falsehoods hour after hour, day after day, year after year. This would be a refreshing start. Not perfect, but it would address one of the most serious issues pulling people apart: The dissemination of lies that, when repeated enough times, are taken to be true by a population seemingly uninterested or incapable of research and critical thinking (factors that are openly exploited by political actors).
- kian 7y ago
  "In some ways one part of the solution is simple: Pass laws that deliver consequences for lying and disseminating false information or fabricating narratives." Something inside me dies every time I hear an American say that the solution to this problem is to set fire to the First Amendment. And who, pray tell, would determine who was lying or misguiding the public? Do you think if such a law were to come into effect while Trump was in power, that he would make sure to use that power justly, instead of as a muzzle to silence political criticism? Or that any other person in power wouldn't abuse the heck out of this? The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and like everything else in this country we've racked up an enormous debt without making plans to pay it. It only takes a generation or two forgetting this to destroy everything that made America beautiful.

25 points by raleighm 7y ago

Pretty much a non-article. The only argument presented seems to be in favor of restoring the old gatekeepers: because although many of us (early 2000s “us”) had imagined that digital technologies would empower citizens by facilitating collective action and eroding the control of elite gatekeepers, many of us have had to accept that, without those gatekeepers and with horizontal networks, users become readily exploitable by algorithms and bad actors. ...because the traditional media has always been trustworthy, right? Whatever solution there is to growing polarization, it isn't going to come from the establishment.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
I thought this was a funny conclusion to come to as well. Let the organizations (known to be a mouthpiece of governments) shape public opinion and be the trusted gatekeeper to our knowledge? No thanks. Personally I’ll take the present situation, where average people can learn uncomfortable truths about our society.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

fallingfrog 7y ago

The issue here is that the center has become decidedly rotten; something has to give, and everyone knows that on a political, social, and economic level, there is no longer any normal to go back to. The good times were never a product of our national unity or our figuring out the best way to do things. They were a historical phenomenon arising from a specific set of circumstances. You can’t just go back to how things were in the 90’s or 80’s, that time is gone.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

I don’t really see a simple way out of the present situation. Maybe there was once a time when people tolerated the “wrong” views of others, but that’s long past. Now the hegemony is enforced in many ways. Social firing campaigns being one of the popular ones.

Nasrudith 7y ago
Social firing for the wrong views was always a thing. Before even the HUAC - just ask any unwed mother who was fired or look at "morality" clauses. The Supreme Court accepted special pleading of "because drugs" in the "Bong Hits for Jesus" case of school jurisdiction. It is just a matter of whose ox is being gored - listen closely and you will hear the long echoes of "Welcome to my world.".

qnsi 7y ago

Waste of time article. Perpetuates myths that are inaccurate like with the information silos.

robomartin 7y ago

In some ways one part of the solution is simple: Pass laws that deliver consequences for lying and disseminating false information or fabricating narratives. Note I am NOT identifying any one political party as the culprit. They are all at fault here. These laws should apply to everyone, from traditional news networks to politicians and individuals. I know the situation is a bit different with social media. If the argument is that all they do is provide a means for interpersonal communication with minimal or no supervision, then, OK, the laws apply to individual users and perhaps only apply to social networks if users are allowed to post and exist anonymously. This isn't a new concept. Human life is about reacting to consequences. From learning how to walk to learning not to touch hot pots or when to cross the street. The most basic of human behaviors are self regulated due to very clear undesirable consequences we learn about along the way. Politics and the media are absolutely rotten. They both hide behind the abject lack of consequences. Both politicians and media outlets can lie and fabricate with absolute impunity. I won't list examples here, suffice it to say we could easily fill thousands of hours of videos with examples of both media and politics (on all sides of political thought) lying or misguiding the public with impunity. This is a forcing function these people do not have. And, because of that, they can say and do almost as they please without consequences. Taking things out of context, fabricating "facts" and threading ridiculous conclusions are every-day realities. Sadly, the Internet and Social media has expanded this exponentially through massively greater access to all of it and the ability for people to interconnect and interact like never before. If we implement consequences for this most insidious problem we will be treated to a very different kind of politics and politicians as well as media that actually does the homework necessary to report well researched facts rather than distortions and politically aligned falsehoods hour after hour, day after day, year after year. This would be a refreshing start. Not perfect, but it would address one of the most serious issues pulling people apart: The dissemination of lies that, when repeated enough times, are taken to be true by a population seemingly uninterested or incapable of research and critical thinking (factors that are openly exploited by political actors).

kian 7y ago
"In some ways one part of the solution is simple: Pass laws that deliver consequences for lying and disseminating false information or fabricating narratives." Something inside me dies every time I hear an American say that the solution to this problem is to set fire to the First Amendment. And who, pray tell, would determine who was lying or misguiding the public? Do you think if such a law were to come into effect while Trump was in power, that he would make sure to use that power justly, instead of as a muzzle to silence political criticism? Or that any other person in power wouldn't abuse the heck out of this? The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and like everything else in this country we've racked up an enormous debt without making plans to pay it. It only takes a generation or two forgetting this to destroy everything that made America beautiful.