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> If prices are very high then hospitals may be the only ones who can afford them, versus people on the street. Outlawing price gauging alone just ensures mas

> If prices are very high then hospitals may be the only ones who can afford them, versus people on the street. Outlawing price gauging alone just ensures masks go to people who don’t need them as much as doctors. The problem is that doesn't seem to reflect the reality of the situation. Why are hospitals still experiencing shortages? What stops manufacturers and sellers from limiting supply to drive up prices? This is why governments are stepping in and forcing medical supplies to go to healthcare. They wouldn't get there otherwise.

arcticbull 7y ago
Not to mention, charging hospitals at the front-line of saving us all exorbitant rates (just to stop masks from going to randos on the street who don't need them) is grotesque. You're gouging our first responders just so people who don't need masks don't get them? Are you kidding me? There must be a more effective answer in a pandemic. This has to be one of the most late-stage capitalist things I've heard all pandemic.
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago
  The point isn't for "first responders" to be paying for masks out of their own pockets, it's for the healthcare system (i.e. ultimately insurance companies) to pay higher prices so that more masks are made available to first responders, either by stimulating new production or reallocating existing masks. If you just start confiscating them then anyone who did something we very much would like them to have done right now -- stockpiled a lot of such equipment to profit in just such an emergency, thereby causing such a stockpile to actually exist -- would see what you've done and choose not to do it anymore. And then next time the shortage is worse.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    > The point isn't for "first responders" to be paying for masks out of their own pockets, it's for the healthcare system (i.e. ultimately insurance companies) to pay higher prices so that more masks are made available to first responders, either by stimulating new production or reallocating existing masks. Yeah, that's grotesque. Everyone who works on the front lines of providing care to COVID patients is a first responder, and whether they or their employers pay, is irrelevant. It is the moral imperative of leadership to do what it takes to resolve the situation now, and figure out the details later. Not to mention, I've always said we need more expensive health insurance in America. > If you just start confiscating them then anyone who did something we very much would like them to have done right now -- stockpiled a lot of such equipment to profit in just such an emergency, thereby causing such a stockpile to actually exist -- would see what you've done and choose not to do it anymore. And then next time the shortage is worse. That's not true, the government can learn from this catastrophe and not disband the entire pandemic preparedness department a few months before a pandemic. It could therefore create a national stockpile of gear first responders might need in a pandemic, and fill it at contracted prices. As they have done with oil. And helium. And raisins.
    - WillPostForFood 7y ago
      No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-...
      - intorio 7y ago
        Your evidence of this is an opinion article by a republican political adviser. Please forgive me if I wait for the congressional investigation to look at it.
        WillPostForFood 7y ago
        No, he isn't a political advisor, he actually on the national security council.
    - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
      > Everyone who works on the front lines of providing care to COVID patients is a first responder, and whether they or their employers pay, is irrelevant. I bet it's relevant to them. > It is the moral imperative of leadership to do what it takes to resolve the situation now, and figure out the details later. But what does that even mean? Suppose Donald Trump is suddenly made owner of all PPE. How is he qualified to allocate it efficiently? What does someone do who legitimately needs it but didn't make his list? > Not to mention, I've always said we need more expensive health insurance in America. You need more healthcare during a pandemic. It costs money. It has to come from somewhere. > It could therefore create a national stockpile of gear first responders might need in a pandemic, and fill it at contracted prices. And then go several years without a pandemic at which point the stockpile will either have rotted or been cut from the budget as "unnecessary" before the next one. This is the type of problem where you want redundancies. The government can try to keep a stockpile and you still want private stockpiles in case they fail or are insufficient -- as has obviously happened. It's not like this is the first ever pandemic in the world that no one could have ever foreseen. What is going to cause them to do any better next time? > As they have done with oil. And helium. And raisins. The strategic petroleum reserve is some kind of a silly farce. Oil is a global commodity and the US is a major producer. The reserve exists entirely as a result of politics, it isn't really useful for much. The "helium reserve" exists primarily because the government is a major producer of the stuff. Nearly all the helium on earth is a product of nuclear reactors. And the "strategic raisin reserve" (insert eyeroll) was recently found unconstitutional.
alexmingoia 7y ago
AFAIK, hospitals aren't experiencing a shortage because of lack of money to buy masks. They're experiencing a shortage because there aren't enough masks.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  In part because all the major powers already directed the masks to the hospitals.
- weare138 7y ago
  But were experiencing shortages because of profiteering. >In New York police arrested a man who had stockpiled medical gear, allegedly selling it for a 700% mark-up.
  - treyfitty 7y ago
    You think the individual stockpilers have amassed more than factories world wide have/can produce? The people who stockpiled medical gear don't account for enough meaningful supply to justify your conclusion.
biggestdecision 7y ago
Hospitals are experiencing shortages, because the masks don't exist - there is not enough mask production in the world. To limit supply to drive up the price, this will only work if the mask manufactures are a cartel.

arcticbull 7y ago

Not to mention, charging hospitals at the front-line of saving us all exorbitant rates (just to stop masks from going to randos on the street who don't need them) is grotesque. You're gouging our first responders just so people who don't need masks don't get them? Are you kidding me? There must be a more effective answer in a pandemic. This has to be one of the most late-stage capitalist things I've heard all pandemic.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago
The point isn't for "first responders" to be paying for masks out of their own pockets, it's for the healthcare system (i.e. ultimately insurance companies) to pay higher prices so that more masks are made available to first responders, either by stimulating new production or reallocating existing masks. If you just start confiscating them then anyone who did something we very much would like them to have done right now -- stockpiled a lot of such equipment to profit in just such an emergency, thereby causing such a stockpile to actually exist -- would see what you've done and choose not to do it anymore. And then next time the shortage is worse.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  > The point isn't for "first responders" to be paying for masks out of their own pockets, it's for the healthcare system (i.e. ultimately insurance companies) to pay higher prices so that more masks are made available to first responders, either by stimulating new production or reallocating existing masks. Yeah, that's grotesque. Everyone who works on the front lines of providing care to COVID patients is a first responder, and whether they or their employers pay, is irrelevant. It is the moral imperative of leadership to do what it takes to resolve the situation now, and figure out the details later. Not to mention, I've always said we need more expensive health insurance in America. > If you just start confiscating them then anyone who did something we very much would like them to have done right now -- stockpiled a lot of such equipment to profit in just such an emergency, thereby causing such a stockpile to actually exist -- would see what you've done and choose not to do it anymore. And then next time the shortage is worse. That's not true, the government can learn from this catastrophe and not disband the entire pandemic preparedness department a few months before a pandemic. It could therefore create a national stockpile of gear first responders might need in a pandemic, and fill it at contracted prices. As they have done with oil. And helium. And raisins.
  - WillPostForFood 7y ago
    No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-...
    - intorio 7y ago
      Your evidence of this is an opinion article by a republican political adviser. Please forgive me if I wait for the congressional investigation to look at it.
      - WillPostForFood 7y ago
        No, he isn't a political advisor, he actually on the national security council.
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
    > Everyone who works on the front lines of providing care to COVID patients is a first responder, and whether they or their employers pay, is irrelevant. I bet it's relevant to them. > It is the moral imperative of leadership to do what it takes to resolve the situation now, and figure out the details later. But what does that even mean? Suppose Donald Trump is suddenly made owner of all PPE. How is he qualified to allocate it efficiently? What does someone do who legitimately needs it but didn't make his list? > Not to mention, I've always said we need more expensive health insurance in America. You need more healthcare during a pandemic. It costs money. It has to come from somewhere. > It could therefore create a national stockpile of gear first responders might need in a pandemic, and fill it at contracted prices. And then go several years without a pandemic at which point the stockpile will either have rotted or been cut from the budget as "unnecessary" before the next one. This is the type of problem where you want redundancies. The government can try to keep a stockpile and you still want private stockpiles in case they fail or are insufficient -- as has obviously happened. It's not like this is the first ever pandemic in the world that no one could have ever foreseen. What is going to cause them to do any better next time? > As they have done with oil. And helium. And raisins. The strategic petroleum reserve is some kind of a silly farce. Oil is a global commodity and the US is a major producer. The reserve exists entirely as a result of politics, it isn't really useful for much. The "helium reserve" exists primarily because the government is a major producer of the stuff. Nearly all the helium on earth is a product of nuclear reactors. And the "strategic raisin reserve" (insert eyeroll) was recently found unconstitutional.

alexmingoia 7y ago

AFAIK, hospitals aren't experiencing a shortage because of lack of money to buy masks. They're experiencing a shortage because there aren't enough masks.

arcticbull 7y ago
In part because all the major powers already directed the masks to the hospitals.
weare138 7y ago
But were experiencing shortages because of profiteering. >In New York police arrested a man who had stockpiled medical gear, allegedly selling it for a 700% mark-up.
- treyfitty 7y ago
  You think the individual stockpilers have amassed more than factories world wide have/can produce? The people who stockpiled medical gear don't account for enough meaningful supply to justify your conclusion.

biggestdecision 7y ago

Hospitals are experiencing shortages, because the masks don't exist - there is not enough mask production in the world. To limit supply to drive up the price, this will only work if the mask manufactures are a cartel.