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> As users accumulate plugins, it all becomes a giant, unmaintanable monolith that ends up unable to perform even the most basic tasks I agree that most of the

by tcgv 7y ago

> As users accumulate plugins, it all becomes a giant, unmaintanable monolith that ends up unable to perform even the most basic tasks I agree that most of the time it's best to give users only one way of doing things, so that they don't get creative and go down a rabbit hole. Nevertheless, if a product targets a specific type of user, which is expected to be knowledged about and follow certain best practices while using it, making the product more customizable can be a competitive advantage. We can't always blame the product for being "too complex" if it's purposely designed that way so that well-read users can take the most out of it.

arghwhat 7y ago
Complex ≠ useful. A TV and a set top of your choice box is simple useful. A smart TV does the same thing, but is complex and inflexible.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  And I can often run my own software on the set-top box, too, if I’m really interested in customizing it. With TVs this is usually harder.
- munchbunny 7y ago
  I just attached a desktop PC to mine... so now it’s more complicated and does everything I want. =P Doesn’t require much complexity from the TV though. Jokes aside, sometimes simplicity is judged on different criteria. Everyone’s favorite example is Craigslist (ugly, but actually quite simple once you grok it), but I can name a few others where the actual criteria for simplicity can be hard to define. Bash, for example. It takes a while before you really realize what the scripting can actually do and what Unix pipes can do. Once you see it, it makes a ton of sense, but until you grok the abstractions, it's just a pile of syntactic mush you can't remember. It's simple for what it does, but the problem itself has a lot of complexity. I believe the same thing about Vim. It requires training because while its modes become simple after you start to get it, it's an irritatingly arduous road to get there. So from the perspective of a lay user... not simple at all. From the perspective of an expert, it's effective to the point of religion.
  - arghwhat 7y ago
    True. SmartTV's may appear simple, but I am fairly certain that their simplicity crumbles for most users quickly. Say, once a user just wants to play games on a console and has to wait for a TV to boot and prompt you to install updates, when a user wants to use AppleTV instead of Android TV, or when they want to upgrade the smarts. I think the man reason people think this is simpler is that manufacturers force it down consumers' throats as this setup sells more units due to planned obsolescence.
pfranz 7y ago
Sure, I think that's a market to target. But it sounds like it's a slog to develop for and often a slog to use (or at least set up). Often the opinions made when designing the software is part of what you're selling. Otherwise, I just ship you a box of 1s and 0s and you can put it together yourself =)

by tcgv 7y ago

arghwhat 7y ago

Complex ≠ useful. A TV and a set top of your choice box is simple useful. A smart TV does the same thing, but is complex and inflexible.

saagarjha 7y ago
And I can often run my own software on the set-top box, too, if I’m really interested in customizing it. With TVs this is usually harder.
munchbunny 7y ago
I just attached a desktop PC to mine... so now it’s more complicated and does everything I want. =P Doesn’t require much complexity from the TV though. Jokes aside, sometimes simplicity is judged on different criteria. Everyone’s favorite example is Craigslist (ugly, but actually quite simple once you grok it), but I can name a few others where the actual criteria for simplicity can be hard to define. Bash, for example. It takes a while before you really realize what the scripting can actually do and what Unix pipes can do. Once you see it, it makes a ton of sense, but until you grok the abstractions, it's just a pile of syntactic mush you can't remember. It's simple for what it does, but the problem itself has a lot of complexity. I believe the same thing about Vim. It requires training because while its modes become simple after you start to get it, it's an irritatingly arduous road to get there. So from the perspective of a lay user... not simple at all. From the perspective of an expert, it's effective to the point of religion.
- arghwhat 7y ago
  True. SmartTV's may appear simple, but I am fairly certain that their simplicity crumbles for most users quickly. Say, once a user just wants to play games on a console and has to wait for a TV to boot and prompt you to install updates, when a user wants to use AppleTV instead of Android TV, or when they want to upgrade the smarts. I think the man reason people think this is simpler is that manufacturers force it down consumers' throats as this setup sells more units due to planned obsolescence.

pfranz 7y ago

Sure, I think that's a market to target. But it sounds like it's a slog to develop for and often a slog to use (or at least set up). Often the opinions made when designing the software is part of what you're selling. Otherwise, I just ship you a box of 1s and 0s and you can put it together yourself =)