5 ms·

Well, this Western States Pact is a result of lack of leadership at the White House and federal level. They feel the US government is not doing enough, so they

by mrb 7y ago

Well, this Western States Pact is a result of lack of leadership at the White House and federal level. They feel the US government is not doing enough, so they took the matter into their own hands.

vondur 7y ago
So what are the issues with the Federal Government response? I often hear people criticize it, without any concrete examples
- standardUser 7y ago
  Have you been following the coverage? There are a lot of mixed messages (opening the economy by Easter, no I mean May, no I mean ASAP), lots of misinformation that contradicts the medical consensus (Trump pushing hydroxychloroquine as if he's the drug's spokesperson), a lot of half actions (Trump invokes Defense Production Act, but then refuses to use it), and blatant lies ("anyone who wants a test can get one"), multiple task forces being set up with vague responsibilities (first Pence, then Kushner). The unwillingness to call for a nationwide lockdown is also a big one that has angered a lot of governors. And just today Trump tweeted that he has the authority to end lockdowns, which is a blatant lie. So yeah, the response hasn't been great.
  - jschwartzi 7y ago
    Trump actually did use the DPA to order GM to produce medical ventilators. Because a car company will have no problem retooling all of their factories to pump out medical devices. I believe that just taught all the CEOs of companies like GM that they shouldn't offer to do a damn thing publicly before they've already got a program in place. This is as opposed to ordering one of the several companies in the US who already make medical ventilators to simply make more ventilators.
- mullen 7y ago
  You are joking, right?
- k-godwin 7y ago
  https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-federal-govt-fema-accused-taking-states-masks-ventilator-orders-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-federal-govt-fem... https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-colorado-polis-ventilators-fema/ https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-colorado-p... https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-ventilators-trump-gardner/ https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-v... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/27/trump-ventilators-coronavirus-cuomo-new-york https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/27/trump-ventil... There is a concrete example of the Federal government seizing PPE, Ventilators ordered by the states. Then only giving them 20% of what they ordered. Its basically legal theft.
- btilly 7y ago
  Concrete examples. Early in office, Trump got rid of the department created by Obama to respond to pandemics. Early in this epidemic, we bungled getting testing out. Got it out in broken form. Had to get it out again. All the while we turned down an effective test advocated by the WHO. And when testing existed, had rules that tested so little that they missed the existence of community spread until it was well established. Blocked private labs from developing and conducting tests. (Community spread was demonstrated by one who broke the federal rules. The reaction of the Trump administration was to come down on them for having conducted unauthorized tests.) Well after it was clear that this was a pandemic that was not under control, Trump was spinning a narrative of this being no big deal. Failed to declare a federal emergency and social distancing restrictions at a national level. Which caused a patchwork of inconsistent responses at the state level. California was in lockdown while COVID-19 was happily spreading among tourists on crowded Florida beaches. I could go on. But right now the USA has 1/4 of all deaths worldwide from COVID-19. We are stilly dying faster, and didn't get there by accident.
  - vondur 7y ago
    Wasn't the issues with the initial tests that there weren't accurate and their simply weren't enough to go around? As far as disbanding the Pandemic team, it's not really true, there was a shuffling of who was in charge of it. It was finally transferred to the Vice President. As far as I can tell, the FDA approved an emergency policy to Help Expedite the Availability of Diagnostics on Feb 19th. The US probably has more contact with China due to trade/travel than most other countries. I don't believe the numbers from China, they are sure to be way higher than they report. I don't think the Federal Government really has the ability to shut down a states beaches that aren't Federally managed.
    - btilly 7y ago
      Wasn't the issues with the initial tests that there weren't accurate and their simply weren't enough to go around? The USA shipped out tests after other countries, and with a faulty reagent that caused false positives. Causing labs that should have been able to do their own tests to have to ship samples to an overwhelmed CDC. See https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/05/905484/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/05/905484/why-the-c... for verification. The CDC promised new tests, but they took weeks to arrive. In the meantime federal bureaucracy roadblocked the development of independent tests. Finally the Seattle Flu study went and ahead and tested...only to find that COVID-19 had community spread for several weeks in that testing vacuum. You can verify that at https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-de.... As far as disbanding the Pandemic team, it's not really true, there was a shuffling of who was in charge of it. It was finally transferred to the Vice President. Let's go for a fuller version: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-fired-pandemic-team/partly-false-claim-trump-fired-pandemic-response-team-in-2018-idUSKBN21C32M https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-fired-pan... Long story short, a number of people were let go, what was left was moved around in the bureaucracy, the political leadership left in charge claims that it still works, but the people left and other politicians claim that it was hamstrung. Given that the US response has been so weak, it it questionable whether it operated at all effectively. As far as I can tell, the FDA approved an emergency policy to Help Expedite the Availability of Diagnostics on Feb 19th. Yes, at which point they created a bureaucratic nightmare for the approval process. As the NY Times article outlines, the lab that actually found community spread was NOT able to get through the approval process. The US probably has more contact with China due to trade/travel than most other countries. I don't believe the numbers from China, they are sure to be way higher than they report. Yes, the USA has a lot of travel. You are far from alone in not believing China. However there is no reason to believe that they are lying about having effectively shut down the virus. (Even the social distancing we are doing here seems to be working, and China was a lot more extreme.) I don't think the Federal Government really has the ability to shut down a states beaches that aren't Federally managed. Never underestimate the reach of the Commerce Clause. The President's ability to declare quarantines and apply them to whomever for whatever reason is extreme. I don't know the limits for sure. But I doubt that he would have had less ability to act than various governors have had.
- ummwhat 7y ago
  On phone so can't link now. 1. Ignored the pandemic response playbook. This document was prepared after the SARS outbreak and contained all the lesson s learned. 2. Reckless public statements. Calling the virus "no worse than a flu" and "a hoax" certainly caused people to not take it seriously and helped it to spread. Pushing the hrdroxocloriquine study before the research was conclusive has gotten people killed. 3. Depriving states of essential resources. Massachusetts not only had their request for masks denied, but also paid for their own masks only to have them seized for the "federal stockpile". In the end the governor had to get masks smuggled in on the New England Patriots private jet. 4. When New York projected it would run out of ventilators in 6 days, their request was denied on the grounds that Trump felt 30k ventilators was too big a number. 5. The emergency production act (or whatever it's called) could have been invoked at any time to address the ppe shortage. Afaik it hasn't been.
- tzs 7y ago
  There was a piece on NPR today looking at the things the President announced they were going to do a month ago when he declared a state of emergency, and where we stand now on those things [1]. [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/832797592/a-month-after-emergency-declaration-trumps-promises-largely-unfulfilled https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/832797592/a-month-after-emerg...
- mrb 7y ago
  Just one example: The US federal government waited until mid-March to order N95 respirators: https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc Other governments acted much more quickly, for example Australia started doing so on February 7: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30064-3/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2... The US government, in particular Trump, is responsible for this delayed response.
drc37 7y ago
This is all 100% political. The only reason they are doing this is to preempt President Trump's announcement tomorrow about the formation of a committee to get this going. Anytime they say it's not political, that is 100% what it is.
- sremani 7y ago
  I am afraid it is, but I do not see that much of an incentive for a Governor to keep their State shut-down when it does not have to. May be its posturing or may be its not. I think the interests of White House and Governors are more in line than not. Time will tell.

by mrb 7y ago

Well, this Western States Pact is a result of lack of leadership at the White House and federal level. They feel the US government is not doing enough, so they took the matter into their own hands.

vondur 7y ago

So what are the issues with the Federal Government response? I often hear people criticize it, without any concrete examples

standardUser 7y ago
Have you been following the coverage? There are a lot of mixed messages (opening the economy by Easter, no I mean May, no I mean ASAP), lots of misinformation that contradicts the medical consensus (Trump pushing hydroxychloroquine as if he's the drug's spokesperson), a lot of half actions (Trump invokes Defense Production Act, but then refuses to use it), and blatant lies ("anyone who wants a test can get one"), multiple task forces being set up with vague responsibilities (first Pence, then Kushner). The unwillingness to call for a nationwide lockdown is also a big one that has angered a lot of governors. And just today Trump tweeted that he has the authority to end lockdowns, which is a blatant lie. So yeah, the response hasn't been great.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  Trump actually did use the DPA to order GM to produce medical ventilators. Because a car company will have no problem retooling all of their factories to pump out medical devices. I believe that just taught all the CEOs of companies like GM that they shouldn't offer to do a damn thing publicly before they've already got a program in place. This is as opposed to ordering one of the several companies in the US who already make medical ventilators to simply make more ventilators.
mullen 7y ago
You are joking, right?
k-godwin 7y ago
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-federal-govt-fema-accused-taking-states-masks-ventilator-orders-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-federal-govt-fem... https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-colorado-polis-ventilators-fema/ https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-colorado-p... https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-ventilators-trump-gardner/ https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-v... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/27/trump-ventilators-coronavirus-cuomo-new-york https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/27/trump-ventil... There is a concrete example of the Federal government seizing PPE, Ventilators ordered by the states. Then only giving them 20% of what they ordered. Its basically legal theft.
btilly 7y ago
Concrete examples. Early in office, Trump got rid of the department created by Obama to respond to pandemics. Early in this epidemic, we bungled getting testing out. Got it out in broken form. Had to get it out again. All the while we turned down an effective test advocated by the WHO. And when testing existed, had rules that tested so little that they missed the existence of community spread until it was well established. Blocked private labs from developing and conducting tests. (Community spread was demonstrated by one who broke the federal rules. The reaction of the Trump administration was to come down on them for having conducted unauthorized tests.) Well after it was clear that this was a pandemic that was not under control, Trump was spinning a narrative of this being no big deal. Failed to declare a federal emergency and social distancing restrictions at a national level. Which caused a patchwork of inconsistent responses at the state level. California was in lockdown while COVID-19 was happily spreading among tourists on crowded Florida beaches. I could go on. But right now the USA has 1/4 of all deaths worldwide from COVID-19. We are stilly dying faster, and didn't get there by accident.
- vondur 7y ago
  Wasn't the issues with the initial tests that there weren't accurate and their simply weren't enough to go around? As far as disbanding the Pandemic team, it's not really true, there was a shuffling of who was in charge of it. It was finally transferred to the Vice President. As far as I can tell, the FDA approved an emergency policy to Help Expedite the Availability of Diagnostics on Feb 19th. The US probably has more contact with China due to trade/travel than most other countries. I don't believe the numbers from China, they are sure to be way higher than they report. I don't think the Federal Government really has the ability to shut down a states beaches that aren't Federally managed.
  - btilly 7y ago
    Wasn't the issues with the initial tests that there weren't accurate and their simply weren't enough to go around? The USA shipped out tests after other countries, and with a faulty reagent that caused false positives. Causing labs that should have been able to do their own tests to have to ship samples to an overwhelmed CDC. See https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/05/905484/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/05/905484/why-the-c... for verification. The CDC promised new tests, but they took weeks to arrive. In the meantime federal bureaucracy roadblocked the development of independent tests. Finally the Seattle Flu study went and ahead and tested...only to find that COVID-19 had community spread for several weeks in that testing vacuum. You can verify that at https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-de.... As far as disbanding the Pandemic team, it's not really true, there was a shuffling of who was in charge of it. It was finally transferred to the Vice President. Let's go for a fuller version: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-fired-pandemic-team/partly-false-claim-trump-fired-pandemic-response-team-in-2018-idUSKBN21C32M https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-fired-pan... Long story short, a number of people were let go, what was left was moved around in the bureaucracy, the political leadership left in charge claims that it still works, but the people left and other politicians claim that it was hamstrung. Given that the US response has been so weak, it it questionable whether it operated at all effectively. As far as I can tell, the FDA approved an emergency policy to Help Expedite the Availability of Diagnostics on Feb 19th. Yes, at which point they created a bureaucratic nightmare for the approval process. As the NY Times article outlines, the lab that actually found community spread was NOT able to get through the approval process. The US probably has more contact with China due to trade/travel than most other countries. I don't believe the numbers from China, they are sure to be way higher than they report. Yes, the USA has a lot of travel. You are far from alone in not believing China. However there is no reason to believe that they are lying about having effectively shut down the virus. (Even the social distancing we are doing here seems to be working, and China was a lot more extreme.) I don't think the Federal Government really has the ability to shut down a states beaches that aren't Federally managed. Never underestimate the reach of the Commerce Clause. The President's ability to declare quarantines and apply them to whomever for whatever reason is extreme. I don't know the limits for sure. But I doubt that he would have had less ability to act than various governors have had.
ummwhat 7y ago
On phone so can't link now. 1. Ignored the pandemic response playbook. This document was prepared after the SARS outbreak and contained all the lesson s learned. 2. Reckless public statements. Calling the virus "no worse than a flu" and "a hoax" certainly caused people to not take it seriously and helped it to spread. Pushing the hrdroxocloriquine study before the research was conclusive has gotten people killed. 3. Depriving states of essential resources. Massachusetts not only had their request for masks denied, but also paid for their own masks only to have them seized for the "federal stockpile". In the end the governor had to get masks smuggled in on the New England Patriots private jet. 4. When New York projected it would run out of ventilators in 6 days, their request was denied on the grounds that Trump felt 30k ventilators was too big a number. 5. The emergency production act (or whatever it's called) could have been invoked at any time to address the ppe shortage. Afaik it hasn't been.
tzs 7y ago
There was a piece on NPR today looking at the things the President announced they were going to do a month ago when he declared a state of emergency, and where we stand now on those things [1]. [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/832797592/a-month-after-emergency-declaration-trumps-promises-largely-unfulfilled https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/832797592/a-month-after-emerg...
mrb 7y ago
Just one example: The US federal government waited until mid-March to order N95 respirators: https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc Other governments acted much more quickly, for example Australia started doing so on February 7: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30064-3/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2... The US government, in particular Trump, is responsible for this delayed response.

drc37 7y ago

This is all 100% political. The only reason they are doing this is to preempt President Trump's announcement tomorrow about the formation of a committee to get this going. Anytime they say it's not political, that is 100% what it is.

sremani 7y ago
I am afraid it is, but I do not see that much of an incentive for a Governor to keep their State shut-down when it does not have to. May be its posturing or may be its not. I think the interests of White House and Governors are more in line than not. Time will tell.