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would be more interesting if if this was paired with a study of people expecting to have some profound experience vs not. " a considerable doubt on the asserti

by cat199 7y ago

would be more interesting if if this was paired with a study of people expecting to have some profound experience vs not. " a considerable doubt on the assertion that mystical experiences catalyzed by drugs are in any way inferior to non-drug mystical experiences in both their immediate content and long-term effects " is as much a statement of scientific 'fact' as it is a theological position - how does one define a 'mystical experience'? how does one 'grade' these nebulous 'mystical experiences'? in terms of quality? severity of experience? ethical content? uniqueness? whether one hallucinated what they thought might be a divine presence or not? These are all questions which ultimately stem from philosophical/theological beliefs. Of course if ones philosophical/spiritual belief is vague and relativistic, then anything goes, and these can all be conveniently 'meaningful' in some conveniently abstract and conveniently qualification-free sense. The 'intellectuals choosing to consume spiritual experiences through specific quantities of purchased chemicals' shtick can just as easily be seen as an exercise in the narcissistic self-validation of ones own preconceived notions as a 'meaningful spiritual occurrence', if one chose to be so cynical - it all comes down to the theological context. YMMV

mistermann 7y ago
> how does one define a 'mystical experience'? This seems to be the current approach used: Factor Analysis of the Mystical Experience Questionnaire: A Study of Experiences Occasioned by the Hallucinogen Psilocybin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/# https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/# ...using these survey questions: APPENDIX - REVISED MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE QUESTIONNAIRE (MEQ; 30 ITEMS) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/bin/NIHMS409614-supplement-Supp_Appendix_S1.docx https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/bin/NIH... This survey seems to be a variation of the above: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~jfkihlstrom/ConsciousnessWeb/Psychedelics/States-of-Consciousness-Questionnaire-and-Pahnke.pdf https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~jfkihlstrom/ConsciousnessWeb/P... Some research into bad trips: The Challenging Experience Questionnaire: Characterization of challenging experiences with psilocybin mushrooms https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5549781/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5549781/ There's a surprisingly large body of proper scientific knowledge out there, despite the long-standing ban on conducting research. And depending on how open-minded one is, there is also a massive amount of anecdotal experiences from individuals, although these all suffer from not following a standard survey, among the other obvious problems one can easily imagine.

by cat199 7y ago

mistermann 7y ago

> how does one define a 'mystical experience'? This seems to be the current approach used: Factor Analysis of the Mystical Experience Questionnaire: A Study of Experiences Occasioned by the Hallucinogen Psilocybin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/# https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/# ...using these survey questions: APPENDIX - REVISED MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE QUESTIONNAIRE (MEQ; 30 ITEMS) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/bin/NIHMS409614-supplement-Supp_Appendix_S1.docx https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/bin/NIH... This survey seems to be a variation of the above: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~jfkihlstrom/ConsciousnessWeb/Psychedelics/States-of-Consciousness-Questionnaire-and-Pahnke.pdf https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~jfkihlstrom/ConsciousnessWeb/P... Some research into bad trips: The Challenging Experience Questionnaire: Characterization of challenging experiences with psilocybin mushrooms https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5549781/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5549781/ There's a surprisingly large body of proper scientific knowledge out there, despite the long-standing ban on conducting research. And depending on how open-minded one is, there is also a massive amount of anecdotal experiences from individuals, although these all suffer from not following a standard survey, among the other obvious problems one can easily imagine.