4 ms·

This is a month old, with a lot of finger pointing and grumbling. What does the data say so far as of today? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/new-covid-deat

This is a month old, with a lot of finger pointing and grumbling. What does the data say so far as of today? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/new-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&time=44..&country=BEL+FRA+ITA+ESP+SWE+GBR+USA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/new-covid-deaths-per-mill... It is currently looking like Sweden is doing very well with their much criticized protocols. And, hey, the US is also doing pretty well when compared with many other countries that have transparent reporting of stats. There will be a lot of lessons learned in the months ahead as we compare what different countries are doing. What worked, what didn't work, and why. Political mudslinging is unlikely to help this process.

MyHypatia 7y ago
By what metric is the US doing well? We have the highest number of cases and the highest number of deaths. While it may be true that some countries are not reporting accurately, it's certainly not true that our numbers only look bad because the US is so transparent. We have a problem, a serious one, and the numbers lay it out quite clearly. We should try to improve.
- tomohawk 7y ago
  Click on the link and look at the chart. The US is currently below 5 new daily deaths per million, while many other countries have a much higher rate. Keep in mind that if you add up the populations of the UK, France, Italy, Spain, and Germany - you still have fewer people than live in the US.
  - redis_mlc 7y ago
    I looked at the chart you linked. I don't see how you can draw any conclusions from it, as each country has different testing and death reporting. Also, the USA contains many cities and large rural areas, so the rates would be different. But most importantly, regardless of how the graph is interpreted, it doesn't answer any questions, such as: - when should we stop social distancing? forever isn't an answer. - do ventilators help or not? - how much testing do we need to do? tracing? To conclude, I think you're confusing data with information.
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      I thought ventilators were pretty much a given - a 50% or better survival rate when needed. They give treatment the time to work. If used when treatment options are exhausted, then they simply prolong life a few days (and suffering) so there's that I suppose.
      - redis_mlc 7y ago
        No. The numbers are 66% to 90% mortality rate (NY is 80%) on ventilators, and the survivors can't talk or climb a flight of stairs for an unknown amount of time. The current recommendation is to use a cannula with an oxygen bottle as long as possible (until the patient can't stop fainting.) There is no treatment yet. Your body can use the first week to try and recover itself, but after that most people die. From a public health policy, ventilators don't work, so they're not really part of the equation now as they were in March. What's misunderstood about ventilators is that being intubated requires general sedation and is more like major surgery than assistance.
    - tomohawk 7y ago
      Why would I look at a chart like this to answer whether ventilators help or not? Rhetorically dismissing data such as this does not get us anywhere. Just because it doesn't answer the questions you pose does not mean it doesn't give us insight, in the aggregate, as to how the disease is progressing in different countries. To conclude, I think you're confusing rhetoric for logic.
  - mpweiher 7y ago
    US:Germany Population: 328239523 : 83149300 → 3.95:1 Corona Deaths: 22108 : 2799 → 7.9 : 1 7.9 / 3.95 → exactly 2 Rate: 1500 : 127 → 11.9048 11.9 / 3.95 → 3.0 So 2x the number of deaths so far per capita, 3x the rate per capita.
redis_mlc 7y ago
> This is a month old, with a lot of finger pointing and grumbling. And well there should be. First there was "ventilator gap" and now there's "testing gap" and "tracing gap." What do we do about these? > What does the data say so far as of today? That graph is not helpful. See my detailed graph comment below. > There will be a lot of lessons learned in the months We need answers and a plan today, not months from now. > Political mudslinging is unlikely to help this process. The article doesn't engage in politics or mudslinging. It does discuss early mistakes, and failure of leadership and policy. tomohawk: Your comments are simply unhelpful rhetoric, without any logic behind your arguments. Saying "the US is also doing pretty well" is absurd while our economy crumbles. 2% of people who get corona may die, but almost 100% of small business owners face financial ruin as the lockdown continues, and they deserve better than rhetoric.

MyHypatia 7y ago

By what metric is the US doing well? We have the highest number of cases and the highest number of deaths. While it may be true that some countries are not reporting accurately, it's certainly not true that our numbers only look bad because the US is so transparent. We have a problem, a serious one, and the numbers lay it out quite clearly. We should try to improve.

tomohawk 7y ago
Click on the link and look at the chart. The US is currently below 5 new daily deaths per million, while many other countries have a much higher rate. Keep in mind that if you add up the populations of the UK, France, Italy, Spain, and Germany - you still have fewer people than live in the US.
- redis_mlc 7y ago
  I looked at the chart you linked. I don't see how you can draw any conclusions from it, as each country has different testing and death reporting. Also, the USA contains many cities and large rural areas, so the rates would be different. But most importantly, regardless of how the graph is interpreted, it doesn't answer any questions, such as: - when should we stop social distancing? forever isn't an answer. - do ventilators help or not? - how much testing do we need to do? tracing? To conclude, I think you're confusing data with information.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    I thought ventilators were pretty much a given - a 50% or better survival rate when needed. They give treatment the time to work. If used when treatment options are exhausted, then they simply prolong life a few days (and suffering) so there's that I suppose.
    - redis_mlc 7y ago
      No. The numbers are 66% to 90% mortality rate (NY is 80%) on ventilators, and the survivors can't talk or climb a flight of stairs for an unknown amount of time. The current recommendation is to use a cannula with an oxygen bottle as long as possible (until the patient can't stop fainting.) There is no treatment yet. Your body can use the first week to try and recover itself, but after that most people die. From a public health policy, ventilators don't work, so they're not really part of the equation now as they were in March. What's misunderstood about ventilators is that being intubated requires general sedation and is more like major surgery than assistance.
  - tomohawk 7y ago
    Why would I look at a chart like this to answer whether ventilators help or not? Rhetorically dismissing data such as this does not get us anywhere. Just because it doesn't answer the questions you pose does not mean it doesn't give us insight, in the aggregate, as to how the disease is progressing in different countries. To conclude, I think you're confusing rhetoric for logic.
- mpweiher 7y ago
  US:Germany Population: 328239523 : 83149300 → 3.95:1 Corona Deaths: 22108 : 2799 → 7.9 : 1 7.9 / 3.95 → exactly 2 Rate: 1500 : 127 → 11.9048 11.9 / 3.95 → 3.0 So 2x the number of deaths so far per capita, 3x the rate per capita.

redis_mlc 7y ago

> This is a month old, with a lot of finger pointing and grumbling. And well there should be. First there was "ventilator gap" and now there's "testing gap" and "tracing gap." What do we do about these? > What does the data say so far as of today? That graph is not helpful. See my detailed graph comment below. > There will be a lot of lessons learned in the months We need answers and a plan today, not months from now. > Political mudslinging is unlikely to help this process. The article doesn't engage in politics or mudslinging. It does discuss early mistakes, and failure of leadership and policy. tomohawk: Your comments are simply unhelpful rhetoric, without any logic behind your arguments. Saying "the US is also doing pretty well" is absurd while our economy crumbles. 2% of people who get corona may die, but almost 100% of small business owners face financial ruin as the lockdown continues, and they deserve better than rhetoric.