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People are complaining about VM performance, while at the same time I'm guessing a fair number of the same people happily writes production code in Python. It's

People are complaining about VM performance, while at the same time I'm guessing a fair number of the same people happily writes production code in Python. It's hard to find a slower language than Python. People are not using VM-based languages because they want to beat the numeric performance of hand-optimised Fortran. They use it because of the memory safety, compatibility and performance which is on par with or even better than other languages (at least when it comes to the JVM) for the tasks that they want to perform, which is for most programmers not going to be numeric simulation.

jonathanstrange 7y ago
I have nothing against lean VMs/JIT compilation like LuaJit or the way Racket compiles on the fly, but I do avoid Java VMs for various reasons: - Dependency hell and deployment problems: It's hard to make correct assumptions about which VM version is available on which platform. Pre-installed versions interfere with side-installed versions, and there is a ton of software that requires older Java VMs to work properly. It's a huge mess. - Potential for losing future OS support: Apple, Microsoft, and others may at any time decide to block Java VM or no longer support it on their platform. That means you have to bundle your software with a Java VM, e.g. Crashplan has done this, making installation and deployment even more difficult. - A thousand past problems on Linux: Various versions of OpenJDK and Oracle's java in combination with user software written in Java have caused massive problems on my Linux machines during the past 15 years, from causing extreme slowdowns to freezing the desktop until you hard reset. Nothing else has given me as much troubles on Linux than Java, not even proprietary graphics card drivers and kernel extensions. Whatever the Java VM does, if it can freeze your whole system just because you run desktop software like Jabref, then there is something wrong with it.
- qqssccfftt 7y ago
  t. person who has not used java since Java 1.5
  - jonathanstrange 7y ago
    My post wasn't intended to be taken as a statement about Java, the programming language, it's about VMs/Java implementations. Unfortunately I have software to run on the Java VM.

jonathanstrange 7y ago

I have nothing against lean VMs/JIT compilation like LuaJit or the way Racket compiles on the fly, but I do avoid Java VMs for various reasons: - Dependency hell and deployment problems: It's hard to make correct assumptions about which VM version is available on which platform. Pre-installed versions interfere with side-installed versions, and there is a ton of software that requires older Java VMs to work properly. It's a huge mess. - Potential for losing future OS support: Apple, Microsoft, and others may at any time decide to block Java VM or no longer support it on their platform. That means you have to bundle your software with a Java VM, e.g. Crashplan has done this, making installation and deployment even more difficult. - A thousand past problems on Linux: Various versions of OpenJDK and Oracle's java in combination with user software written in Java have caused massive problems on my Linux machines during the past 15 years, from causing extreme slowdowns to freezing the desktop until you hard reset. Nothing else has given me as much troubles on Linux than Java, not even proprietary graphics card drivers and kernel extensions. Whatever the Java VM does, if it can freeze your whole system just because you run desktop software like Jabref, then there is something wrong with it.

qqssccfftt 7y ago
t. person who has not used java since Java 1.5
- jonathanstrange 7y ago
  My post wasn't intended to be taken as a statement about Java, the programming language, it's about VMs/Java implementations. Unfortunately I have software to run on the Java VM.