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I looked at the screenshot and thought "that's a nice, warm, fuzzy reminder of the late 90s state of the art." Then I scrolled down and saw the first bullet: "

I looked at the screenshot and thought "that's a nice, warm, fuzzy reminder of the late 90s state of the art." Then I scrolled down and saw the first bullet: "modern UI" I don't do much with tcl, but if I wanted an IDE for it that felt modern, I'd probably look at Komodo first: https://www.activestate.com/products/komodo-ide/ https://www.activestate.com/products/komodo-ide/

craigsmansion 7y ago
The IDE you linked to seems to be proprietary software.
- hoistbypetard 7y ago
  I'm aware that it's proprietary. I thought it was also available gratis for individual developers.
  - craigsmansion 7y ago
    In a thread about a free software IDE for Tcl, which might mean a lot of exposure for what seems like a small project, you write what amounts to how you don't like the look of it and promote a proprietary alternative. I don't feel that's right.
    - hoistbypetard 7y ago
      It's a small project that hasn't seen a commit since 2015: https://github.com/xdobry/tclsqueak/commits/master https://github.com/xdobry/tclsqueak/commits/master Dormant projects do not really benefit from exposure. I also didn't say I don't like the look. Quite the opposite. It is a late 90s early 00s kind of look that I personally find appealing. I wouldn't call it "modern" however. Sorry you don't feel that's right, though.
- andrewshadura 7y ago
  Komodo Edit, though, is free software. https://github.com/Komodo/KomodoEdit https://github.com/Komodo/KomodoEdit
fithisux 7y ago
This is not cheap.
- hoistbypetard 7y ago
  I thought they'd made it available free-of-charge now. (That's the only reason I mentioned it here.) That said, the only times anyone has ever asked me to work on large enough projects involving Tcl that I care if I have an IDE, I've been integrating very expensive, very proprietary software. I don't enjoy that work, my fees for that are high, and no one's ever flinched at the cost of the IDE in that context.
- criddell 7y ago
  It might not be cheap, but is it a good value for you? How many hours of your time would it have to save before it paid for itself?
credit_guy 7y ago
I looked at both screenshots, and aside from the dark theme, it's not clear how the Komodo screenshot is different. They both show a bunch of windows that presumably allow you to navigate files and classes, and the code window offers syntax highlighting. Sure, the window style is different, and the fonts too; there's more color in the non-coding windows on the Komodo side. All right, design-wise the Komodo screenshot feels more modern. However, my take on "modern" is that the authors of the TclSqueek were thinking more at function than form. I can't speak about that one with first hand experience, but I talked with Smalltalk developers, and they think the Smalltalk environment is still unmatched. If that is the target that TclSqueek tries to emulate, then it is "modern".
- hoistbypetard 7y ago
  Fair enough. It screams pre OS X NextStep to me, which is probably very much related to that. Chrome aside, the non-modern thing that jumps out at me is that you likely have a few more windows/dialogs/palettes/etc. you're working with in TclSqueak, where Komodo adopts a pattern of decorations on the side of a single window that cause additional panes to appear within that same window as you click them. I don't especially like that specific turn we've taken over the past 10 years or so, but that pattern of revealing hidden bits within one big window sticks out quite a bit even beyond the chrome to me.
sigzero 7y ago
For what they were trying to do in 2015 (last release) it probably was.

craigsmansion 7y ago

The IDE you linked to seems to be proprietary software.

hoistbypetard 7y ago
I'm aware that it's proprietary. I thought it was also available gratis for individual developers.
- craigsmansion 7y ago
  In a thread about a free software IDE for Tcl, which might mean a lot of exposure for what seems like a small project, you write what amounts to how you don't like the look of it and promote a proprietary alternative. I don't feel that's right.
  - hoistbypetard 7y ago
    It's a small project that hasn't seen a commit since 2015: https://github.com/xdobry/tclsqueak/commits/master https://github.com/xdobry/tclsqueak/commits/master Dormant projects do not really benefit from exposure. I also didn't say I don't like the look. Quite the opposite. It is a late 90s early 00s kind of look that I personally find appealing. I wouldn't call it "modern" however. Sorry you don't feel that's right, though.
andrewshadura 7y ago
Komodo Edit, though, is free software. https://github.com/Komodo/KomodoEdit https://github.com/Komodo/KomodoEdit

fithisux 7y ago

This is not cheap.

hoistbypetard 7y ago
I thought they'd made it available free-of-charge now. (That's the only reason I mentioned it here.) That said, the only times anyone has ever asked me to work on large enough projects involving Tcl that I care if I have an IDE, I've been integrating very expensive, very proprietary software. I don't enjoy that work, my fees for that are high, and no one's ever flinched at the cost of the IDE in that context.
criddell 7y ago
It might not be cheap, but is it a good value for you? How many hours of your time would it have to save before it paid for itself?

credit_guy 7y ago

I looked at both screenshots, and aside from the dark theme, it's not clear how the Komodo screenshot is different. They both show a bunch of windows that presumably allow you to navigate files and classes, and the code window offers syntax highlighting. Sure, the window style is different, and the fonts too; there's more color in the non-coding windows on the Komodo side. All right, design-wise the Komodo screenshot feels more modern. However, my take on "modern" is that the authors of the TclSqueek were thinking more at function than form. I can't speak about that one with first hand experience, but I talked with Smalltalk developers, and they think the Smalltalk environment is still unmatched. If that is the target that TclSqueek tries to emulate, then it is "modern".

hoistbypetard 7y ago
Fair enough. It screams pre OS X NextStep to me, which is probably very much related to that. Chrome aside, the non-modern thing that jumps out at me is that you likely have a few more windows/dialogs/palettes/etc. you're working with in TclSqueak, where Komodo adopts a pattern of decorations on the side of a single window that cause additional panes to appear within that same window as you click them. I don't especially like that specific turn we've taken over the past 10 years or so, but that pattern of revealing hidden bits within one big window sticks out quite a bit even beyond the chrome to me.

sigzero 7y ago

For what they were trying to do in 2015 (last release) it probably was.