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> I see a lot of simplistic "landlords must suck it up" comments in this thread. Your answer is for the rent payer, with no economy, to "suck it up". If the t

> I see a lot of simplistic "landlords must suck it up" comments in this thread. Your answer is for the rent payer, with no economy, to "suck it up". If the top felt the pain of recessions more than the bottom, you can bet there would be less recessions where massive wealth value extraction happens. You have to align the market incentives right. Make the top feel the pain, at the bank level even, and you are gonna have better ratings agencies, better leverage ratios, and less pump and dump bubbles setup. Right now if the top always gains, even in pain, there will be more and more pain as they look for gains guaranteed. If we truly are in a trickle down system, shouldn't emergency hits to the recession start at the top, the trickle source? Money trickles up and down and all around, but money only trickles where other money is found.

dbcurtis 7y ago
> Your answer is for the rent payer, with no economy, to "suck it up". You miss-read me. First of all, I did not suggest any answer. I suggested that people put more thoughtfulness into their analysis. What I am saying is that there really is no one person to "suck it up". The furloughed school cafeteria worker is going to take a double hit because the public employee retirement system probably holds REITs. Scapegoating landlords is the tactic of leftest South American dictators. Landlords are middlemen, earning a return on providing housing liquidity. They take on short-term risk in the form of their tenants potential inability to pay, and long-term risk in the form of long-term loans collateralized by their properties. The system doesn't work unless someone is willing to take on that risk profile. Stop scapegoating landlords.
- mindslight 7y ago
  > long-term risk in the form of long-term loans collateralized by their properties. The system doesn't work unless someone is willing to take on that risk profile. Stop scapegoating landlords. Implicit in the criticism of landlords is that the majority of this long term loan is for an arbitrary asset valuation created by artificially low interest loans. Most of the cost of real estate is not in the building or upkeep itself, which is why everyone worries (or hopes) that real estate values will drop when the debt treadmill slows. Like NYC taxi medallions, it's an overfinancialized setup that taxes real production for the sake of the financial industry. So yes, looking at the individual landlords they are indeed working to fill a market niche. But looking at the emergent system taken as a whole, it's preposterous.
- drawkbox 7y ago
  > Stop scapegoating landlords If rent collection at the very top, above the landlord, above the management company, if they have to take the hit from this the most, there will be many less recessions. If the bank, credit cards and mortgage owners have payments suspended in recessions, there would be many less recessions. If the top of the chain, that is the elusive 'trickle down' source, felt the pain for recessions the most, there would be many less recessions. If 'too big to fail' banks and companies were immediately broken up on commencement of recessions, there would be many less recessions. If you let the bottom just suck it up, extract all value and wealth from them while they take the hit and are the value creators and workers, then there will be many more recessions and incentives to go bigger every single time. Stop incentivizing bigger and bigger recessions and companies that get 'bailout big' from 'too big to fail'. It is only going to get worse if the top doesn't feel the pain, instead they gain with the current setup. This isn't a normal market, you can't put it on the bottom again. We shouldn't only care about the rent-seekers, they add little value and the assets still exist if they change. We should be focused on the value creators, workers and consumers, not just the value extractors and rent-seekers. Incentives and regulations drive markets to targets, set the targets better, and take the target off the backs of the lower/middle class. Markets are garden, they mostly just grow, but it takes some maintenance. The in trouble lower/middle should be brought up and focused on, the massively growing top should be scaled back or harvested regularly. If you run any projects or have any game designs for markets, you know this is something that requires maintenance and balance, not inequality. Life is a free to play game, whales should provide most of the funds for a good game design for all. More in this comment so I don't have to repeat it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22852799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22852799

dbcurtis 7y ago

> Your answer is for the rent payer, with no economy, to "suck it up". You miss-read me. First of all, I did not suggest any answer. I suggested that people put more thoughtfulness into their analysis. What I am saying is that there really is no one person to "suck it up". The furloughed school cafeteria worker is going to take a double hit because the public employee retirement system probably holds REITs. Scapegoating landlords is the tactic of leftest South American dictators. Landlords are middlemen, earning a return on providing housing liquidity. They take on short-term risk in the form of their tenants potential inability to pay, and long-term risk in the form of long-term loans collateralized by their properties. The system doesn't work unless someone is willing to take on that risk profile. Stop scapegoating landlords.

mindslight 7y ago
> long-term risk in the form of long-term loans collateralized by their properties. The system doesn't work unless someone is willing to take on that risk profile. Stop scapegoating landlords. Implicit in the criticism of landlords is that the majority of this long term loan is for an arbitrary asset valuation created by artificially low interest loans. Most of the cost of real estate is not in the building or upkeep itself, which is why everyone worries (or hopes) that real estate values will drop when the debt treadmill slows. Like NYC taxi medallions, it's an overfinancialized setup that taxes real production for the sake of the financial industry. So yes, looking at the individual landlords they are indeed working to fill a market niche. But looking at the emergent system taken as a whole, it's preposterous.
drawkbox 7y ago
> Stop scapegoating landlords If rent collection at the very top, above the landlord, above the management company, if they have to take the hit from this the most, there will be many less recessions. If the bank, credit cards and mortgage owners have payments suspended in recessions, there would be many less recessions. If the top of the chain, that is the elusive 'trickle down' source, felt the pain for recessions the most, there would be many less recessions. If 'too big to fail' banks and companies were immediately broken up on commencement of recessions, there would be many less recessions. If you let the bottom just suck it up, extract all value and wealth from them while they take the hit and are the value creators and workers, then there will be many more recessions and incentives to go bigger every single time. Stop incentivizing bigger and bigger recessions and companies that get 'bailout big' from 'too big to fail'. It is only going to get worse if the top doesn't feel the pain, instead they gain with the current setup. This isn't a normal market, you can't put it on the bottom again. We shouldn't only care about the rent-seekers, they add little value and the assets still exist if they change. We should be focused on the value creators, workers and consumers, not just the value extractors and rent-seekers. Incentives and regulations drive markets to targets, set the targets better, and take the target off the backs of the lower/middle class. Markets are garden, they mostly just grow, but it takes some maintenance. The in trouble lower/middle should be brought up and focused on, the massively growing top should be scaled back or harvested regularly. If you run any projects or have any game designs for markets, you know this is something that requires maintenance and balance, not inequality. Life is a free to play game, whales should provide most of the funds for a good game design for all. More in this comment so I don't have to repeat it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22852799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22852799