5 ms·

I always thought it was weird that Wisconsin was a swing state. They seem like they would always be red, tons or manufacturing and farms, not a lot of big citie

I always thought it was weird that Wisconsin was a swing state. They seem like they would always be red, tons or manufacturing and farms, not a lot of big cities. But, it seems like Wisconsin Republicans are always making the national news for corruption, the Foxconn plant, allowing a vote in the middle of a pandemic for a minor Republican gain, and when Scott Walker lost his governor seat he removed a lot of power from the governor so, the Democrat coming in couldn't do as much. I know there are good and bad people on both sides, but Wisconsin Republicans have some work to do.

analog31 7y ago
Wisconsin is a swing state for votes that can't be gerrymandered, i.e., the governor, US senate, and president. It's strongly republican for the two houses of the legislature and the state supreme court.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  Yes, I read that 53% of voters voted for Democratic legislative candidates but Democrats only hold 36% of seats in the legislature. Republicans have discovered how to "hack" democracy. I think it's pretty clear both sides have engaged in some pretty egregious gerrymandering in different parts of the country, but only Republicans have become so hostile to allowing people to actually vote. And while both parties' positions on voter laws may be due to self-interest (marginal voters are more likely to vote Democratic, so barriers to voting are more likely to negatively affect Democrats) it doesn't really matter - the Republican position of things like shortening early voting, closing tons of polling places in spots like university towns, forcing a vote during a pandemic is bad for democracy.
  - kyrieeschaton 7y ago
    The core Wisconsin Democratic constituencies (blacks, public employees, and college students) are very concentrated geographically. Any reasonably compact districting is going to produce the same results.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - analog31 7y ago
      Those groups are also concentrated in places that have higher population density, hence more representatives. The only way to prove that districting produces fair and unbiased results is to have it happen in a fair and open fashion.
      - analog31 7y ago
        One additional thing to add. I live in Wisconsin, and know a lot of people inside and outside of the cities. It's a misconception that rural whites are exclusively red. Sure, there are reliable "base" groups, but also a huge swath of people throughout the state who are generally swing-y. For instance I know farmers and "white working class" people who are staunch liberals.
    - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
      This is just blatantly false. The gerrymandering in Wisconsin was what was taken to the Supreme Court in the political gerrymandering case, precisely because it heavily favored Republicans. The Supreme Court ruled against the plaintiffs (not surprisingly, 5-4 I might add), but in the grounds that the federal courts didn't have the power to intervene in cases of political gerrymandering, but no one really debated that the Wisconsin maps heavily favored Republicans over what a more normal, compact map would produce.
    - bilbo0s 7y ago
      Nah. I live here. Wisconsin is just corrupt. You wouldn't believe the geometric gymnastics they jump through to try to get districts that will always vote liberal or conservative. Districting maps look like something from mc escher.
godzillabrennus 7y ago
Watch “making a murderer” on Netflix to get a good look into Wisconsin justice.
- paulie_a 7y ago
  The justice system here did get it wrong originally and then got him for a crime he for sure did commit. There was no need for the police to frame him. He was a known lifelong criminal and the running joke with LE was that he will get arrested again because he is that stupid.
  - defterGoose 7y ago
    If law enforcement there was bad enough to get the first rape charge wrong, and had a lot to lose reputation-wise from Avery, what makes you think they would be incapable of framing him? What pieces of evidence make you so sure he committed a murder? I'm not saying the documentary was completely without bias in his favor, but there were inconsistencies that would give the most casual observer pause.
VintageCool 7y ago
Wisconsin is one of the most segregated and polarized states in the country. It's split between pure blue Milwaukee and it's pure red suburbs (the "WOW" counties). https://archive.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/democratic-republican-voters-worlds-apart-in-divided-wisconsin-b99249564z1-255883361.html https://archive.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/democratic-r...
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  It's also one of the more corrupt states. From Scott Walker level public theft, to a DA that actually exchanged light charges on drug gangs for charity donations. (Of course, all of the "donations" had to go to "charities" run by his friends in his municipality. That way he could make sure the money went to help "the children".) What can I say? Wisconsin is crazy bad. But it's home for me.
germinalphrase 7y ago
Progressivism has historically had a strong bulwark in Wisconsin due to the legacy of Bob La Follette and the “Wisconsin Idea” [0]. The Republican Party was founded in Wisconsin (in Ripon) though it shares, of course, very little other than the name with the modern Republican Party. [0]https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS417 https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS417
- jonstewart 7y ago
  While neither the most racially diverse nor tolerant of places, the upper Midwest still had a strong Northern/Union identity when I was growing up there a few decades ago. Folks are socially and fiscally conservative, but that cultural identity coming out of the Civil War, the Grange, then the New Deal, and strong union membership post-WWII distinguish the region as purple, in contrast to the solid red of the South (which was formerly solid blue decades ago, in the Dixiecrat era, as no one wanted to vote for the party of Lincoln).
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    This is pretty accurate. Up here in Wisconsin, I'd definitely say we're the "True Believers" in the whole Union side of the civil war thing. Labor unions are also not viewed quite as negatively up here. Never really thought about all that until you mentioned it. When you grow up in it you don't really see it unless someone points it out to you.
aegis4244 7y ago
Wisconsin is, outside of Madison and Milwaukee socially very conservative. Those same social conservatives were union Democrats. Unions got hit hard the last 30 years, so those union dems are now voting their conservative social feelings. It will only get more red over time.
lonelappde 7y ago
Manufacturing isn't Republican. Labor leans left.
acjohnson55 7y ago
Like Iowa, Northern Illinois and Minnesota, Wisconsin was historically pretty centrist and humanitarian. It's only recently that the rural areas have swung to the right. The Revolutions Podcast also introduced me to the history of the Forty-Eighters, who had a tremendous impact on the politics of the Upper Midwest. Particularly in Wisconsin. And that's on top of a substrate of communitarian values brought by the original European settlers pushed westward from Massachusetts. It's really a post-millennial phenomenon that the politics are now dominated by a pan-US urban-rural divide. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-Eighters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-Eighters https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-11-Rival-Regional-Cultures/132391 https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-11-Rival-Regional-Cult...

analog31 7y ago

Wisconsin is a swing state for votes that can't be gerrymandered, i.e., the governor, US senate, and president. It's strongly republican for the two houses of the legislature and the state supreme court.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
Yes, I read that 53% of voters voted for Democratic legislative candidates but Democrats only hold 36% of seats in the legislature. Republicans have discovered how to "hack" democracy. I think it's pretty clear both sides have engaged in some pretty egregious gerrymandering in different parts of the country, but only Republicans have become so hostile to allowing people to actually vote. And while both parties' positions on voter laws may be due to self-interest (marginal voters are more likely to vote Democratic, so barriers to voting are more likely to negatively affect Democrats) it doesn't really matter - the Republican position of things like shortening early voting, closing tons of polling places in spots like university towns, forcing a vote during a pandemic is bad for democracy.
- kyrieeschaton 7y ago
  The core Wisconsin Democratic constituencies (blacks, public employees, and college students) are very concentrated geographically. Any reasonably compact districting is going to produce the same results.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - analog31 7y ago
    Those groups are also concentrated in places that have higher population density, hence more representatives. The only way to prove that districting produces fair and unbiased results is to have it happen in a fair and open fashion.
    - analog31 7y ago
      One additional thing to add. I live in Wisconsin, and know a lot of people inside and outside of the cities. It's a misconception that rural whites are exclusively red. Sure, there are reliable "base" groups, but also a huge swath of people throughout the state who are generally swing-y. For instance I know farmers and "white working class" people who are staunch liberals.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    This is just blatantly false. The gerrymandering in Wisconsin was what was taken to the Supreme Court in the political gerrymandering case, precisely because it heavily favored Republicans. The Supreme Court ruled against the plaintiffs (not surprisingly, 5-4 I might add), but in the grounds that the federal courts didn't have the power to intervene in cases of political gerrymandering, but no one really debated that the Wisconsin maps heavily favored Republicans over what a more normal, compact map would produce.
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    Nah. I live here. Wisconsin is just corrupt. You wouldn't believe the geometric gymnastics they jump through to try to get districts that will always vote liberal or conservative. Districting maps look like something from mc escher.

godzillabrennus 7y ago

Watch “making a murderer” on Netflix to get a good look into Wisconsin justice.

paulie_a 7y ago
The justice system here did get it wrong originally and then got him for a crime he for sure did commit. There was no need for the police to frame him. He was a known lifelong criminal and the running joke with LE was that he will get arrested again because he is that stupid.
- defterGoose 7y ago
  If law enforcement there was bad enough to get the first rape charge wrong, and had a lot to lose reputation-wise from Avery, what makes you think they would be incapable of framing him? What pieces of evidence make you so sure he committed a murder? I'm not saying the documentary was completely without bias in his favor, but there were inconsistencies that would give the most casual observer pause.

VintageCool 7y ago

Wisconsin is one of the most segregated and polarized states in the country. It's split between pure blue Milwaukee and it's pure red suburbs (the "WOW" counties). https://archive.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/democratic-republican-voters-worlds-apart-in-divided-wisconsin-b99249564z1-255883361.html https://archive.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/democratic-r...

bilbo0s 7y ago
It's also one of the more corrupt states. From Scott Walker level public theft, to a DA that actually exchanged light charges on drug gangs for charity donations. (Of course, all of the "donations" had to go to "charities" run by his friends in his municipality. That way he could make sure the money went to help "the children".) What can I say? Wisconsin is crazy bad. But it's home for me.

germinalphrase 7y ago

Progressivism has historically had a strong bulwark in Wisconsin due to the legacy of Bob La Follette and the “Wisconsin Idea” [0]. The Republican Party was founded in Wisconsin (in Ripon) though it shares, of course, very little other than the name with the modern Republican Party. [0]https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS417 https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS417

jonstewart 7y ago
While neither the most racially diverse nor tolerant of places, the upper Midwest still had a strong Northern/Union identity when I was growing up there a few decades ago. Folks are socially and fiscally conservative, but that cultural identity coming out of the Civil War, the Grange, then the New Deal, and strong union membership post-WWII distinguish the region as purple, in contrast to the solid red of the South (which was formerly solid blue decades ago, in the Dixiecrat era, as no one wanted to vote for the party of Lincoln).
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  This is pretty accurate. Up here in Wisconsin, I'd definitely say we're the "True Believers" in the whole Union side of the civil war thing. Labor unions are also not viewed quite as negatively up here. Never really thought about all that until you mentioned it. When you grow up in it you don't really see it unless someone points it out to you.

aegis4244 7y ago

Wisconsin is, outside of Madison and Milwaukee socially very conservative. Those same social conservatives were union Democrats. Unions got hit hard the last 30 years, so those union dems are now voting their conservative social feelings. It will only get more red over time.

lonelappde 7y ago

Manufacturing isn't Republican. Labor leans left.

acjohnson55 7y ago

Like Iowa, Northern Illinois and Minnesota, Wisconsin was historically pretty centrist and humanitarian. It's only recently that the rural areas have swung to the right. The Revolutions Podcast also introduced me to the history of the Forty-Eighters, who had a tremendous impact on the politics of the Upper Midwest. Particularly in Wisconsin. And that's on top of a substrate of communitarian values brought by the original European settlers pushed westward from Massachusetts. It's really a post-millennial phenomenon that the politics are now dominated by a pan-US urban-rural divide. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-Eighters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-Eighters https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-11-Rival-Regional-Cultures/132391 https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-11-Rival-Regional-Cult...