5 ms·

The the American leadership constantly calling it by the region name you can understand why an authoritarian regime would want to control discussion of the orig

The the American leadership constantly calling it by the region name you can understand why an authoritarian regime would want to control discussion of the origins by experts. The risk is of their research being weaponized by said demagogues.

champagneben 7y ago
Given that this clamping down came about earlier than any discussion of this matter by the American leadership, I don't think that's a good explanation for this. *Reading this comment again, perhaps I should have phrased it more carefully - I'm not saying that any clamping down that is happening now has come earlier, but that China started clamping down on this from the very beginning.
miked85 7y ago
Are you suggesting the virus didn't originate in Wuhan?
- ccmcarey 7y ago
  Wuhan.
  - miked85 7y ago
    typo, updated.
- drak0n1c 7y ago
  According to the deleted research center job and notice postings in November and December it allegedly originated in Hunan among bats, and they collected it and brought it back to the Wuhan lab.
cm2187 7y ago
Bill Maher has an amusing monologue on that topic [1]. I don't think it is wrong to call it the Wuhan virus, and if the Chinese don't want the bad publicity associated with the virus, they should do something about these wet markets. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8
- andromeduck 7y ago
  Hilariously it was the CCP that pushed the Wuhan virus name in the first place, instead of SARS-like which was what the doctors were calling it, so as to not appear incompetent for having repeated the mistakes of SARS and in order to distance themselves and make sure it's the local baeurucrats that take the blunt of the heat. Then they went on claiming everything was good again, 0 new cases nationally, so the head honchos could take credit for showing leadership and whatnot. Now they're blaming new cases on foreigners, especially Africans, most of whom never even left the country since this whole ordeal started both to stoke nationalism + rally around the flag effect and so as to evade responsibility for not actually having stopped it yet.
- cc81 7y ago
  On the other hand we did not call the "Swine Flu" the "North American flu"
  - Vomzor 7y ago
    It’s called Mexican flu in Dutch.
  - cm2187 7y ago
    Watch the video, he cites loads of examples.
- roenxi 7y ago
  This and similar monologues do get one important things wrong. The big one on the list - Spanish Flu - likely didn't come from Spain [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic#Hypotheses_about_the_source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic#Hypotheses_a...
  - cm2187 7y ago
    I think this is completely missing the point. I believe it was named the Spanish flu as this is where it was first reported. That we learned later on that it originated from somewhere else is completely irrelevant. The point is that it was named after where it was believed to be first observed.
nikofeyn 7y ago
it is always curious to me that the west, and particularly the united states, refuse to believe their own actions and behavior don't affect the behavior of other countries. the united states has been ignoring this effect for years in practically every conflict for the past 70 years. people should start taking a stronger look at their own countries. the united states' leadership doesn't even have clear propaganda or a goal. they're just making it all up as they go, which is worse in my opinion. this toddler-level blame game is a major threat to the national security and economy in the united states.
dependenttypes 7y ago
I was under the impression that they started intentionally calling it the Wuhan virus only after the Chinese government started making propaganda that the virus came form aboard.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  Other way around. People started saying it was developed by the Chinese as a weapon almost immediately, and the originator of the "Chinese propaganda" specifically called out such claims before blaming the US.
  - dependenttypes 7y ago
    We are talking about politicians specifically though.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      Still, a congressman blamed the Chinese on TV before the start of the Lijian twitter incident.
- cma 7y ago
  They started calling it the Chinese virus after that, Wuhan virus was earlier (if you are referring to the NYT timeline article from yesterday).
- jml7c5 7y ago
  My understanding is that intentionally misnaming the virus/disease is done to mock perceived political correctness. Particularly after the WHO officially named it SARS-CoV2/COVID-19, if someone on twitter referred to the virus/disease as "Chinese coronavirus"/"Wuhan virus"/etc, someone would usually respond saying that such language was xenophobic. This happens to a few prominent people, screenshots are made, screenshots are shared around, people pile in on one side or the other, the issue quickly becomes partisan. In the end, right-leaning media/individuals/presidents coalesce and intentionally emphasize the Chinese origin as a protest against perceived oversensitivity. Normally I'm loathe to suggest that things which happen on twitter direct wider social discourse, but I believe this is the most accurate characterization of events in this case.

champagneben 7y ago

Given that this clamping down came about earlier than any discussion of this matter by the American leadership, I don't think that's a good explanation for this. *Reading this comment again, perhaps I should have phrased it more carefully - I'm not saying that any clamping down that is happening now has come earlier, but that China started clamping down on this from the very beginning.

miked85 7y ago

Are you suggesting the virus didn't originate in Wuhan?

ccmcarey 7y ago
Wuhan.
- miked85 7y ago
  typo, updated.
drak0n1c 7y ago
According to the deleted research center job and notice postings in November and December it allegedly originated in Hunan among bats, and they collected it and brought it back to the Wuhan lab.

cm2187 7y ago

Bill Maher has an amusing monologue on that topic [1]. I don't think it is wrong to call it the Wuhan virus, and if the Chinese don't want the bad publicity associated with the virus, they should do something about these wet markets. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8

andromeduck 7y ago
Hilariously it was the CCP that pushed the Wuhan virus name in the first place, instead of SARS-like which was what the doctors were calling it, so as to not appear incompetent for having repeated the mistakes of SARS and in order to distance themselves and make sure it's the local baeurucrats that take the blunt of the heat. Then they went on claiming everything was good again, 0 new cases nationally, so the head honchos could take credit for showing leadership and whatnot. Now they're blaming new cases on foreigners, especially Africans, most of whom never even left the country since this whole ordeal started both to stoke nationalism + rally around the flag effect and so as to evade responsibility for not actually having stopped it yet.
cc81 7y ago
On the other hand we did not call the "Swine Flu" the "North American flu"
- Vomzor 7y ago
  It’s called Mexican flu in Dutch.
- cm2187 7y ago
  Watch the video, he cites loads of examples.
roenxi 7y ago
This and similar monologues do get one important things wrong. The big one on the list - Spanish Flu - likely didn't come from Spain [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic#Hypotheses_about_the_source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic#Hypotheses_a...
- cm2187 7y ago
  I think this is completely missing the point. I believe it was named the Spanish flu as this is where it was first reported. That we learned later on that it originated from somewhere else is completely irrelevant. The point is that it was named after where it was believed to be first observed.

nikofeyn 7y ago

it is always curious to me that the west, and particularly the united states, refuse to believe their own actions and behavior don't affect the behavior of other countries. the united states has been ignoring this effect for years in practically every conflict for the past 70 years. people should start taking a stronger look at their own countries. the united states' leadership doesn't even have clear propaganda or a goal. they're just making it all up as they go, which is worse in my opinion. this toddler-level blame game is a major threat to the national security and economy in the united states.

dependenttypes 7y ago

I was under the impression that they started intentionally calling it the Wuhan virus only after the Chinese government started making propaganda that the virus came form aboard.

boomboomsubban 7y ago
Other way around. People started saying it was developed by the Chinese as a weapon almost immediately, and the originator of the "Chinese propaganda" specifically called out such claims before blaming the US.
- dependenttypes 7y ago
  We are talking about politicians specifically though.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    Still, a congressman blamed the Chinese on TV before the start of the Lijian twitter incident.
cma 7y ago
They started calling it the Chinese virus after that, Wuhan virus was earlier (if you are referring to the NYT timeline article from yesterday).
jml7c5 7y ago
My understanding is that intentionally misnaming the virus/disease is done to mock perceived political correctness. Particularly after the WHO officially named it SARS-CoV2/COVID-19, if someone on twitter referred to the virus/disease as "Chinese coronavirus"/"Wuhan virus"/etc, someone would usually respond saying that such language was xenophobic. This happens to a few prominent people, screenshots are made, screenshots are shared around, people pile in on one side or the other, the issue quickly becomes partisan. In the end, right-leaning media/individuals/presidents coalesce and intentionally emphasize the Chinese origin as a protest against perceived oversensitivity. Normally I'm loathe to suggest that things which happen on twitter direct wider social discourse, but I believe this is the most accurate characterization of events in this case.