4 ms·

Not surprising. A great episode about this issue is on Reply All, worth listening to even now: #132 Negative Mount Pleasant DECEMBER 6, 2018 A small town in W

by dpau 6y ago

Not surprising. A great episode about this issue is on Reply All, worth listening to even now: #132 Negative Mount Pleasant DECEMBER 6, 2018 A small town in Wisconsin becomes the site of a completely unprecedented experiment. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhjwd https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhjwd

wyxuan 6y ago
I was so angry listening to all those delusional council members who thought that suddenly their town could be silicon valley. Nothing wrong with thinking big, but to reasonably believe that you could start many multi billion dollar tech companies just with one plant is just loony. It left me at the end of the episode thinking, foxconn came in like a fox and conned everyone involved.
- cosmodisk 6y ago
  There's a very good Russian film called The Twelve Chairs- an adaptation of a book with the same title.There,the main character, a professional con artist,ends up in a small town, in a middle of nowhere. In a matter of days,he convinces the entire town that because of chess games some of the residents often play,they could turn the town into the world capital of chess.They will host international tournaments, conferences,and etc.The Soviet government will build a rail link directly to Moscow and it will ultimately become a super city in no time. The film is 50 years old,but looks like the today's world hasn't changed that much...
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Is this the inspiration for the Simpson’s monorail episode?
    - __david__ 6y ago
      No, that was the very popular musical, The Music Man, which is a very similar story.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Thank you!
    - cosmodisk 6y ago
      Oh,the monorail! What a great episode. Nowadays they go around offering hyperloop technology to naïve city councillors..
  - js2 6y ago
    I only know the Mel Brooks version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs_(1970_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs_(1970_film) But reading the wikipedia description of the book, it's the same premise: characters attempting to obtain jewelry hidden in a chair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs Are you thinking of a different story? Edit: ah, apparently that's a part of the novel, which if it's in the Mel Brooks film, I don't recall: "bamboozling a village chess club with promises of an international tournament."
    - cosmodisk 6y ago
      It's the same story- I'll need to watch this version to compare the adaptations. The Russian adaptation is unique in a few ways: 1) I'm not sure how,but in times of heavy propaganda and censorship, these films got green light.The concepts they show were absolutely crazy at the time.I never really understood how soviet machine allowed this to be made to start with. 2) The film became an absolute cultural phenomenon that influenced generations. Some of the phrases used by lead characters continue to be used in wider context even today( I.e. "why do you need money? You've got no imagination!) https://youtu.be/P8t2dbJ7YXY https://youtu.be/P8t2dbJ7YXY (1:44:00 the scene where they arrive to the town of gullibles.There's English subtitles option)
    - lonelappde 6y ago
      > attempting to obtain jewelry hidden in a chair. Is also the plot of the infamous eponymous Gaslight.
  - lazyant 6y ago
    And yet a small Spanish town in the middle of nowhere was the world capital of chess for many years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linares_International_Chess_Tournament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linares_International_Chess_To...
notRobot 6y ago
Truly a great episode. Definitely recommended by me too.
sschueller 6y ago
Thank you for posting this. It is unbelievable how dumb and corrupt some local governments are. Especially disturbing how heartless these people can be to their own town folk. This is like some 3rd world country local government kind of banana republic. Unbelievable.
- cosmodisk 6y ago
  Corruption works the same everywhere and America isn't an exception. Remember a film with Travolta,where he plays a lawyer trying to get this massive company on a hook for water poisoning. The very people living in the town and drinking the same water were the ones polluting it.Ffs, it's like I go to work, pour poison into a water well just to return home and open a tap to fill up a glass and then pass it on to my children. And all this for probably a few grand more a year.People are cheap
  - mjburgess 6y ago
    Corruption isn't the same everywhere, and America is an exception in the western world (along with italy). It is partly caused by the (1) extreme levels of devolution; (2) politicisation of every level of public life (eg., even judges are elected); (3) barriers to removal of elected people from office. Kind of a perfect storm: elect everything, make being directly elected sacred, and nearly impossible to undo. In the UK almost everything is appointed, including the prime minister who is not directly elected to the office. The PM is then quite often removed from office, along with the whole class of unelected civil servants whose entire careers are spent working for the government regardless of who is in office. The huge levels of institutional professionalisation this allows basically makes corruption nearly impossible.
    - kortilla 6y ago
      America is not an exception: https://www.transparency.org/cpi2019 https://www.transparency.org/cpi2019
      - mjburgess 6y ago
nikkwong 6y ago
Wow. This story was mind blowing. I don't understand how a small town can borrow against a state's future tax earnings? Why are Wisconsin's taxpayers on the hook for the stupid mistakes of these council members? Also the story doesn't make this clear. How are the incentive payments made to Foxconn? I'm certain that it's not just a direct transfer of tax dollars from the city/state to Foxconn (?).
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  The statewide officials were in on it too. Blame Scott Walker first and foremost, certainly more than any one individual at the town level.
  - nikkwong 6y ago
    I can understand the naivete of Americans on the receiving end of this, like Walker or the president of the town for just being lured in by the idea "investment => profit". Foxconn however is obviously much more sophisticated and the story alludes to how manufacturing is cheaper in Asia; so the premise of why they'd invest in a plant here doesn't make much sense. Although it flirts with answering this question I still don't have a clear answer. It sounds like they received tax incentives, which, maybe were incentive enough for production demand that they at some point may have? It just doesn't make sense to me if they weren't planning on actually hiring 13,000 workers, what's the incentive? Tax breaks do you no good if you generate no revenue.
- clairity 6y ago
  > "I don't understand how a small town can borrow against a state's future tax earnings?" states are the canonical units of governance in the US. towns/cities have no budget or power on their own. that's all delegated from the state, analogous to allowing VP's access to their company's credit line. since it's (literally) a ward of the state, the responsibility for debts also fall on the state in cases of insolvency of the municipality. note that state and local muni bonds are the same thing--borrowing against a state's future tax earnings (often at great cost).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
arcticfox 6y ago
One of my favorite episodes. I was so enraged. Outrage sells with me, it seems. By the way, anyone looking for a little fun follow up, a WordPress crash outed the owner of the A Better Mount Pleasant blog: https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/pfc_complaint_-_robert_stedman_may_2019.pdf https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/pfc_complaint_-_robe...

by dpau 6y ago

wyxuan 6y ago

I was so angry listening to all those delusional council members who thought that suddenly their town could be silicon valley. Nothing wrong with thinking big, but to reasonably believe that you could start many multi billion dollar tech companies just with one plant is just loony. It left me at the end of the episode thinking, foxconn came in like a fox and conned everyone involved.

cosmodisk 6y ago
There's a very good Russian film called The Twelve Chairs- an adaptation of a book with the same title.There,the main character, a professional con artist,ends up in a small town, in a middle of nowhere. In a matter of days,he convinces the entire town that because of chess games some of the residents often play,they could turn the town into the world capital of chess.They will host international tournaments, conferences,and etc.The Soviet government will build a rail link directly to Moscow and it will ultimately become a super city in no time. The film is 50 years old,but looks like the today's world hasn't changed that much...
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Is this the inspiration for the Simpson’s monorail episode?
  - __david__ 6y ago
    No, that was the very popular musical, The Music Man, which is a very similar story.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Thank you!
  - cosmodisk 6y ago
    Oh,the monorail! What a great episode. Nowadays they go around offering hyperloop technology to naïve city councillors..
- js2 6y ago
  I only know the Mel Brooks version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs_(1970_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs_(1970_film) But reading the wikipedia description of the book, it's the same premise: characters attempting to obtain jewelry hidden in a chair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs Are you thinking of a different story? Edit: ah, apparently that's a part of the novel, which if it's in the Mel Brooks film, I don't recall: "bamboozling a village chess club with promises of an international tournament."
  - cosmodisk 6y ago
    It's the same story- I'll need to watch this version to compare the adaptations. The Russian adaptation is unique in a few ways: 1) I'm not sure how,but in times of heavy propaganda and censorship, these films got green light.The concepts they show were absolutely crazy at the time.I never really understood how soviet machine allowed this to be made to start with. 2) The film became an absolute cultural phenomenon that influenced generations. Some of the phrases used by lead characters continue to be used in wider context even today( I.e. "why do you need money? You've got no imagination!) https://youtu.be/P8t2dbJ7YXY https://youtu.be/P8t2dbJ7YXY (1:44:00 the scene where they arrive to the town of gullibles.There's English subtitles option)
  - lonelappde 6y ago
    > attempting to obtain jewelry hidden in a chair. Is also the plot of the infamous eponymous Gaslight.
- lazyant 6y ago
  And yet a small Spanish town in the middle of nowhere was the world capital of chess for many years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linares_International_Chess_Tournament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linares_International_Chess_To...

notRobot 6y ago

Truly a great episode. Definitely recommended by me too.

sschueller 6y ago

Thank you for posting this. It is unbelievable how dumb and corrupt some local governments are. Especially disturbing how heartless these people can be to their own town folk. This is like some 3rd world country local government kind of banana republic. Unbelievable.

cosmodisk 6y ago
Corruption works the same everywhere and America isn't an exception. Remember a film with Travolta,where he plays a lawyer trying to get this massive company on a hook for water poisoning. The very people living in the town and drinking the same water were the ones polluting it.Ffs, it's like I go to work, pour poison into a water well just to return home and open a tap to fill up a glass and then pass it on to my children. And all this for probably a few grand more a year.People are cheap
- mjburgess 6y ago
  Corruption isn't the same everywhere, and America is an exception in the western world (along with italy). It is partly caused by the (1) extreme levels of devolution; (2) politicisation of every level of public life (eg., even judges are elected); (3) barriers to removal of elected people from office. Kind of a perfect storm: elect everything, make being directly elected sacred, and nearly impossible to undo. In the UK almost everything is appointed, including the prime minister who is not directly elected to the office. The PM is then quite often removed from office, along with the whole class of unelected civil servants whose entire careers are spent working for the government regardless of who is in office. The huge levels of institutional professionalisation this allows basically makes corruption nearly impossible.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    America is not an exception: https://www.transparency.org/cpi2019 https://www.transparency.org/cpi2019
    - mjburgess 6y ago

nikkwong 6y ago

Wow. This story was mind blowing. I don't understand how a small town can borrow against a state's future tax earnings? Why are Wisconsin's taxpayers on the hook for the stupid mistakes of these council members? Also the story doesn't make this clear. How are the incentive payments made to Foxconn? I'm certain that it's not just a direct transfer of tax dollars from the city/state to Foxconn (?).

CydeWeys 6y ago
The statewide officials were in on it too. Blame Scott Walker first and foremost, certainly more than any one individual at the town level.
- nikkwong 6y ago
  I can understand the naivete of Americans on the receiving end of this, like Walker or the president of the town for just being lured in by the idea "investment => profit". Foxconn however is obviously much more sophisticated and the story alludes to how manufacturing is cheaper in Asia; so the premise of why they'd invest in a plant here doesn't make much sense. Although it flirts with answering this question I still don't have a clear answer. It sounds like they received tax incentives, which, maybe were incentive enough for production demand that they at some point may have? It just doesn't make sense to me if they weren't planning on actually hiring 13,000 workers, what's the incentive? Tax breaks do you no good if you generate no revenue.
clairity 6y ago
> "I don't understand how a small town can borrow against a state's future tax earnings?" states are the canonical units of governance in the US. towns/cities have no budget or power on their own. that's all delegated from the state, analogous to allowing VP's access to their company's credit line. since it's (literally) a ward of the state, the responsibility for debts also fall on the state in cases of insolvency of the municipality. note that state and local muni bonds are the same thing--borrowing against a state's future tax earnings (often at great cost).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

arcticfox 6y ago

One of my favorite episodes. I was so enraged. Outrage sells with me, it seems. By the way, anyone looking for a little fun follow up, a WordPress crash outed the owner of the A Better Mount Pleasant blog: https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/pfc_complaint_-_robert_stedman_may_2019.pdf https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/pfc_complaint_-_robe...