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If you respond to something I actually wrote, I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

jongraehl 16y ago
That was definitely a response to what you wrote. However, I don't think it's a fair to demand: "JUST condemn it, and offer no excuses." You're free to excuse if you like.
- rbarooah 16y ago
  I didn't make excuses. I said it was negative and that I didn't like it. I attempted to explain why I thought he was doing it. I find it interesting to try to understand people's motivations rather than condemn them even if I dislike what they are doing.
  - alex_c 16y ago
    Isn't the motivation "they lie to sell more devices" - which is what your post seems to dance around, without outright saying it? Or am I oversimplifying?
    - rbarooah 16y ago
      You're oversimplifying. The misquote of the Samsung executive is the only thing he said that might be dishonest. Unlike the original statement by Samsung that they sold 2 million devices. The fact is that executives in the industry make misleading statements all the time. These statements end up in headlines and do influence people. This is fact. Does this mean I like it? Of course not. Do I think it would be better if Jobs was a lot more careful to say things that are unimpeachably clean - very much so. I think they make these kinds of statements to try to counteract the kinds of falsehoods that others are making. Other than the Samsung quote, Jobs didn't lie. How is exaggerating the outrage and pretending that he did, any better than what he's accused of?
      - bane 16y ago
        Other than the Samsung quote, Jobs didn't lie. Here's the ones you must have missed then, from the article: "First dual core tablet to ship in volume." ">90% market share".
        rbarooah 16y ago
        Those aren't lies. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287053 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287053
c2 16y ago
He did. Your comment was a long winded apologetic on why Apple was justified in lying, bending the truth, and promoting half truths. You started by saying "I don't agree" then ended up "Apple needs to state their viewpoints" which is subtly justifying their behavior. In my opinion, this is an open and shut case of Steve not being honest in his keynote, and he should be called out. It's especially disappointing to hear this as a fan of Apple as I don't think this kind of reality distortion is necessary given Apple's success. It just makes them look desperate and much lower then their actual position would dictate.
- rbarooah 16y ago
  You are confusing explanation with justification. I think steve jobs was dishonest in presenting that uncorrected quote from the Samsung executive. It lessens him in my eyes and it has been called out already. Does that mean we can't attempt to understand his motivation without being called names? Must every statement about the subject begin with 'Steve Jobs is a liar'? It's worth pointing out that nothing else he said even comes close to being a lie.
  - bane 16y ago
    "Does that mean we can't attempt to understand his motivation without being called names?" I think that's implicit and not really necessary to discuss, "sell more stuff". However, if Jobs came out tomorrow and said, "look folks, I've been kinda sick and out of the loop recently, somebody else put those slides together and I didn't realize they weren't accurate, sorry 'bout that" that'd be a reasonable explanation.

That was definitely a response to what you wrote. However, I don't think it's a fair to demand: "JUST condemn it, and offer no excuses." You're free to excuse if you like.

rbarooah 16y ago
I didn't make excuses. I said it was negative and that I didn't like it. I attempted to explain why I thought he was doing it. I find it interesting to try to understand people's motivations rather than condemn them even if I dislike what they are doing.
- alex_c 16y ago
  Isn't the motivation "they lie to sell more devices" - which is what your post seems to dance around, without outright saying it? Or am I oversimplifying?
  - rbarooah 16y ago
    You're oversimplifying. The misquote of the Samsung executive is the only thing he said that might be dishonest. Unlike the original statement by Samsung that they sold 2 million devices. The fact is that executives in the industry make misleading statements all the time. These statements end up in headlines and do influence people. This is fact. Does this mean I like it? Of course not. Do I think it would be better if Jobs was a lot more careful to say things that are unimpeachably clean - very much so. I think they make these kinds of statements to try to counteract the kinds of falsehoods that others are making. Other than the Samsung quote, Jobs didn't lie. How is exaggerating the outrage and pretending that he did, any better than what he's accused of?
    - bane 16y ago
      Other than the Samsung quote, Jobs didn't lie. Here's the ones you must have missed then, from the article: "First dual core tablet to ship in volume." ">90% market share".
      - rbarooah 16y ago
        Those aren't lies. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287053 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287053

c2 16y ago

He did. Your comment was a long winded apologetic on why Apple was justified in lying, bending the truth, and promoting half truths. You started by saying "I don't agree" then ended up "Apple needs to state their viewpoints" which is subtly justifying their behavior. In my opinion, this is an open and shut case of Steve not being honest in his keynote, and he should be called out. It's especially disappointing to hear this as a fan of Apple as I don't think this kind of reality distortion is necessary given Apple's success. It just makes them look desperate and much lower then their actual position would dictate.

rbarooah 16y ago
You are confusing explanation with justification. I think steve jobs was dishonest in presenting that uncorrected quote from the Samsung executive. It lessens him in my eyes and it has been called out already. Does that mean we can't attempt to understand his motivation without being called names? Must every statement about the subject begin with 'Steve Jobs is a liar'? It's worth pointing out that nothing else he said even comes close to being a lie.
- bane 16y ago
  "Does that mean we can't attempt to understand his motivation without being called names?" I think that's implicit and not really necessary to discuss, "sell more stuff". However, if Jobs came out tomorrow and said, "look folks, I've been kinda sick and out of the loop recently, somebody else put those slides together and I didn't realize they weren't accurate, sorry 'bout that" that'd be a reasonable explanation.