8 ms·

I can't speak for design, I know most people think that Thinkpads look ugly, however regarding build quality I own a Thinkpad T500 I bought 2 years ago and I ha

I can't speak for design, I know most people think that Thinkpads look ugly, however regarding build quality I own a Thinkpad T500 I bought 2 years ago and I have: +Dropped it way more times than I can count, usually while closed and turned off but also while it was running, and while it was open (both running and not). +Totally stood on it, putting my full weight on the closed lid many times. +Left it running in my closed backpack for almost an hour (twice). +Used it indoors and out during drizzle, snow, the height of summer and the low of winter, I even used it on a beach once. And through all of the above I never had any problems. The only issue I have ever had was when I was carrying it about 6 ft. off the ground while open and running (brilliant I know) and I dropped it onto a tile-on-concrete floor. That time the hard drive crashed but everything was perfectly fine. I don't know what kind of build quality Apple computers have but I'm going to guess that it can't be that much better.

nkohari 16y ago
It's not just build quality, it's also aesthetics. You say you can't speak for design, but that's what most people care about more than the ability to bounce their laptop off of concrete. That's why the average consumer isn't in the market for a Toughbook.
- daten 16y ago
  What data are basing the opinions of "most people" and "average consumers" on?
  - jshen 16y ago
    consumer sales?
    - recoiledsnake 16y ago
      You mean around 17% to 20% ? That's 'most people' and the 'average consumer'?
      - jshen 16y ago
        can you link to the numbers
    - ShaunK 16y ago
      Well then HP, Dell and Acer make the most beautiful laptops in the world.
      - jshen 16y ago
        Are you including sales to businesses in those numbers?
        ShaunK 16y ago
        Yes probably. And in reality if you look at laptops > $1k it's not even close, Apple has 90% of that market. What that says to me though is that most people care more about cost than aesthetics. The point being that aesthetics isn't really the trump card that a lot of people think it is.
        jshen 16y ago
        I think we have to bucket buyers into different groups. For one large group I think it is the dominant factor. I think the word "aesthetics" maybe be a bit of a misnomer. It's more than just physical appearance. There's a clean elegance to almost all aspects of the device including the software. The tablets will be a good test, so far the android tablets aren't a lot cheaper than the ipad. We'll see how they do.
  - jasonwocky 16y ago
    Does it matter? Are you disputing the claim? Do you think that people care more about the ability to bounce their laptop off of concrete than aesthetics?
    - tomjen3 16y ago
      Depends on which group you look into. The social level who can afford to buy apple? Most likely not that many. Those who can't afford to change the laptop if it breaks (or who would find this to be a major expense)? Yeah, I can believe that.
      - jodrellblank 16y ago
        The social level who can afford to buy apple? A Toughbook costs more than a comparable MBP.
        moe 16y ago
        And for the price of a MBP you can buy 2-3 "normal" laptops. I.e. the low-end budget stuff that ain't pretty, may have a whiny fan, but still gets the job done.
        moe 16y ago
        Why did that get downvoted? For reference, here's a Lenovo G550 for $389: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146839 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146... The MBP starts at $1199.
        tomjen3 16y ago
        And insurance costs more than not having it, but the poorer you are, the more you need it. So yeah, it is maybe more expensive but I can totally see why you would want that.
        jodrellblank 16y ago
- recoiledsnake 16y ago
  >That's why the average consumer isn't in the market for a Toughbook. The average consumer isn't in the market for a beautiful piece of a glass laptop that breaks with little impact either.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    My original Aluminum Unibody 13" macbook has been dropped 6ft onto a hardwood floor, and banged multiple times against aluminum braces. Has a few dings, but still going strong.
- kgermino 16y ago
  I disagree. I think that the average person looks almost exclusively at price, and not much else. However, in my experience the few people that pay much attention to the specific type of laptop they are buying pay at least as much attention to quality as they do to aesthetics. (Note that I don't have any numbers to back this up, this is just my experience from the people who I help buy computers)
kenjackson 16y ago
I know most people think that Thinkpads look ugly I don't think so. Most people I know love the look of Thinkpads. It's still my favorite looking laptop. It has a classic styling too. It's a design that looked good 10 years ago, and still looks good now. I'm not sure any other laptop exists that can make that claim.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  The styling of UPS delivery vans shares this longevity. I think it's because we all know Thinkpads just keep looking the same, so they never look out of date. Whereas, we can tell a Dell from 5 years ago is going to be a lot slower.
j79 16y ago
Everything you mentioned, I've also done (with the exception of using it out in drizzle and snow - that just seems crazy!) Once, during my commute home, I decided to play music via iTunes (my iPod had died). I arrived home, walking to the door, when I decided to unzip the bag I was carrying (a sling type) to turn off iTunes, when my Mac Book Pro came sliding out. It landed smack on the front right corner, a good 5-5.5 ft drop. I feared the worst! It took me a good 10 seconds to finally get the nerve to check and was shocked to find, not only was the screen not cracked, but the machine was still running like a champ! (I did end up with a serious dent and some major scratches on the bottom, but I considered them battle scars and showed them off with pride!) I've looked at ThinkPads for work (web development) and I'm glad to hear the quality is on par with the MBPs I'm use to.
- Rariel 16y ago
  I second this. My MBP has been dropped more times than I can ever admit to the Genius Bar and it has kept on ticking. Every computer I've ever owned has been a mac and they all still work. Compare that to my fiance's 4 PCs that have all broken beyond use. He's currently using my Power Book that's almost 8 years old. It's slow but it works! It also still looks nice.
- TeHCrAzY 16y ago
  Last time I looked at them was a while ago, but with mac book pro vs thinkpad, the mac book pro is significantly more expensive.
burgerbrain 16y ago
I once slipped on ice and dropped my running T60p 4 feet onto a steel manhole cover. 3 years later, it's still running like a dream.
- dasil003 16y ago
  These stories of people running across streets frantically computing with their open laptop during the dead of winter invite so many more questions than just the survival of the device.
  - tscrib 16y ago
    "when I was young, we'd walk 25miles to school, in the middle of winter, uphill both ways, with our laptops open and running..."
    - rbarooah 16y ago
      "At least you had a hill to walk up. In my day we had to use our laptops in an icy hole covered in tarpaulin just to keep the things from overheating"
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    Trying to triangulate the position of a wifi AP ;)
ChuckN 16y ago
ThinkPad is the best computer out there aside from the MBP - the only problem is with the OS typically found on the ThinkPad. My time isn't worth saving $100 with Windows - sorry.
tuhin 16y ago
I will tell you the build that Apple has: > +Dropped it way more times than I can count, usually while closed and turned off but also while it was running, and while it was open (both running and not). Yes >+Totally stood on it, putting my full weight on the closed lid many times. Why on earth would I do that? >+Left it running in my closed backpack for almost an hour (twice). More times than I can count. My MBP has been "shut down" for a maximum of 20 times in the past 2 years. >+Used it indoors and out during drizzle, snow, the height of summer and the low of winter, I even used it on a beach once. Everything except the snow >The only issue I have ever had was when I was carrying it about 6 ft. off the ground while open and running (brilliant I know) and I dropped it onto a tile-on-concrete floor. That time the hard drive crashed but everything was perfectly fine. Done that as well. The MBP hard disk stops motion when the acceleration exceeds a certain value suddenly -It is not just the build quality. -It is also about merging design and technology -Building a durable laptop can be as non innovative as carbon fibre layering. -It is about removing point of failures/fall/mishaps by innovation like the MagSafe adapters. God they prevent the laptop from falling everyday. -Also it is not just how it is built but also how it works. I work on Windows in my office and on my MBP by the night. The OS is exceedingly more polished and refined on the Mac. <br /> Does that give a fair perspective?
- tuhin 16y ago
  Ok. I am new here but I do know the reason why this was down voted. Could you please explain?
  - nkurz 16y ago
    I didn't downvote, so I'm not sure, but I'd guess it's mostly because of the odd formatting. It's difficult to tell what you are quoting, and what you are adding. I wouldn't take offense. Checking http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc might help for the future.
cdavid 16y ago
I do like apple hardware (until mac os x became good enough for me, around 10.4/10.5 I used linux on a intel macbook), and it is well designed, but IBM thinkpad are much more solid. Actually, the Intel plastic macbook were pretty crappy quality-wise: the magnet stuff which kept breaking for many people, etc... I bought the alu one for that reason alone. Also, ipods are not super strong, and the recent ones rarely last more than 2 years for me. Maybe I am just careless, but the IBM thinkpad I got lasted for years and were built like tanks (and unfortunately looked like as well...).

nkohari 16y ago

It's not just build quality, it's also aesthetics. You say you can't speak for design, but that's what most people care about more than the ability to bounce their laptop off of concrete. That's why the average consumer isn't in the market for a Toughbook.

daten 16y ago
What data are basing the opinions of "most people" and "average consumers" on?
- jshen 16y ago
  consumer sales?
  - recoiledsnake 16y ago
    You mean around 17% to 20% ? That's 'most people' and the 'average consumer'?
    - jshen 16y ago
      can you link to the numbers
  - ShaunK 16y ago
    Well then HP, Dell and Acer make the most beautiful laptops in the world.
    - jshen 16y ago
      Are you including sales to businesses in those numbers?
      - ShaunK 16y ago
        Yes probably. And in reality if you look at laptops > $1k it's not even close, Apple has 90% of that market. What that says to me though is that most people care more about cost than aesthetics. The point being that aesthetics isn't really the trump card that a lot of people think it is.
        jshen 16y ago
        I think we have to bucket buyers into different groups. For one large group I think it is the dominant factor. I think the word "aesthetics" maybe be a bit of a misnomer. It's more than just physical appearance. There's a clean elegance to almost all aspects of the device including the software. The tablets will be a good test, so far the android tablets aren't a lot cheaper than the ipad. We'll see how they do.
- jasonwocky 16y ago
  Does it matter? Are you disputing the claim? Do you think that people care more about the ability to bounce their laptop off of concrete than aesthetics?
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    Depends on which group you look into. The social level who can afford to buy apple? Most likely not that many. Those who can't afford to change the laptop if it breaks (or who would find this to be a major expense)? Yeah, I can believe that.
    - jodrellblank 16y ago
      The social level who can afford to buy apple? A Toughbook costs more than a comparable MBP.
      - moe 16y ago
        And for the price of a MBP you can buy 2-3 "normal" laptops. I.e. the low-end budget stuff that ain't pretty, may have a whiny fan, but still gets the job done.
        moe 16y ago
        Why did that get downvoted? For reference, here's a Lenovo G550 for $389: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146839 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146... The MBP starts at $1199.
      - tomjen3 16y ago
        And insurance costs more than not having it, but the poorer you are, the more you need it. So yeah, it is maybe more expensive but I can totally see why you would want that.
        jodrellblank 16y ago
recoiledsnake 16y ago
>That's why the average consumer isn't in the market for a Toughbook. The average consumer isn't in the market for a beautiful piece of a glass laptop that breaks with little impact either.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  My original Aluminum Unibody 13" macbook has been dropped 6ft onto a hardwood floor, and banged multiple times against aluminum braces. Has a few dings, but still going strong.
kgermino 16y ago
I disagree. I think that the average person looks almost exclusively at price, and not much else. However, in my experience the few people that pay much attention to the specific type of laptop they are buying pay at least as much attention to quality as they do to aesthetics. (Note that I don't have any numbers to back this up, this is just my experience from the people who I help buy computers)

kenjackson 16y ago

I know most people think that Thinkpads look ugly I don't think so. Most people I know love the look of Thinkpads. It's still my favorite looking laptop. It has a classic styling too. It's a design that looked good 10 years ago, and still looks good now. I'm not sure any other laptop exists that can make that claim.

stcredzero 16y ago
The styling of UPS delivery vans shares this longevity. I think it's because we all know Thinkpads just keep looking the same, so they never look out of date. Whereas, we can tell a Dell from 5 years ago is going to be a lot slower.

j79 16y ago

Everything you mentioned, I've also done (with the exception of using it out in drizzle and snow - that just seems crazy!) Once, during my commute home, I decided to play music via iTunes (my iPod had died). I arrived home, walking to the door, when I decided to unzip the bag I was carrying (a sling type) to turn off iTunes, when my Mac Book Pro came sliding out. It landed smack on the front right corner, a good 5-5.5 ft drop. I feared the worst! It took me a good 10 seconds to finally get the nerve to check and was shocked to find, not only was the screen not cracked, but the machine was still running like a champ! (I did end up with a serious dent and some major scratches on the bottom, but I considered them battle scars and showed them off with pride!) I've looked at ThinkPads for work (web development) and I'm glad to hear the quality is on par with the MBPs I'm use to.

Rariel 16y ago
I second this. My MBP has been dropped more times than I can ever admit to the Genius Bar and it has kept on ticking. Every computer I've ever owned has been a mac and they all still work. Compare that to my fiance's 4 PCs that have all broken beyond use. He's currently using my Power Book that's almost 8 years old. It's slow but it works! It also still looks nice.
TeHCrAzY 16y ago
Last time I looked at them was a while ago, but with mac book pro vs thinkpad, the mac book pro is significantly more expensive.

burgerbrain 16y ago

I once slipped on ice and dropped my running T60p 4 feet onto a steel manhole cover. 3 years later, it's still running like a dream.

dasil003 16y ago
These stories of people running across streets frantically computing with their open laptop during the dead of winter invite so many more questions than just the survival of the device.
- tscrib 16y ago
  "when I was young, we'd walk 25miles to school, in the middle of winter, uphill both ways, with our laptops open and running..."
  - rbarooah 16y ago
    "At least you had a hill to walk up. In my day we had to use our laptops in an icy hole covered in tarpaulin just to keep the things from overheating"
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  Trying to triangulate the position of a wifi AP ;)

ChuckN 16y ago

ThinkPad is the best computer out there aside from the MBP - the only problem is with the OS typically found on the ThinkPad. My time isn't worth saving $100 with Windows - sorry.

tuhin 16y ago

I will tell you the build that Apple has: > +Dropped it way more times than I can count, usually while closed and turned off but also while it was running, and while it was open (both running and not). Yes >+Totally stood on it, putting my full weight on the closed lid many times. Why on earth would I do that? >+Left it running in my closed backpack for almost an hour (twice). More times than I can count. My MBP has been "shut down" for a maximum of 20 times in the past 2 years. >+Used it indoors and out during drizzle, snow, the height of summer and the low of winter, I even used it on a beach once. Everything except the snow >The only issue I have ever had was when I was carrying it about 6 ft. off the ground while open and running (brilliant I know) and I dropped it onto a tile-on-concrete floor. That time the hard drive crashed but everything was perfectly fine. Done that as well. The MBP hard disk stops motion when the acceleration exceeds a certain value suddenly -It is not just the build quality. -It is also about merging design and technology -Building a durable laptop can be as non innovative as carbon fibre layering. -It is about removing point of failures/fall/mishaps by innovation like the MagSafe adapters. God they prevent the laptop from falling everyday. -Also it is not just how it is built but also how it works. I work on Windows in my office and on my MBP by the night. The OS is exceedingly more polished and refined on the Mac. <br /> Does that give a fair perspective?

tuhin 16y ago
Ok. I am new here but I do know the reason why this was down voted. Could you please explain?
- nkurz 16y ago
  I didn't downvote, so I'm not sure, but I'd guess it's mostly because of the odd formatting. It's difficult to tell what you are quoting, and what you are adding. I wouldn't take offense. Checking http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc might help for the future.

cdavid 16y ago

I do like apple hardware (until mac os x became good enough for me, around 10.4/10.5 I used linux on a intel macbook), and it is well designed, but IBM thinkpad are much more solid. Actually, the Intel plastic macbook were pretty crappy quality-wise: the magnet stuff which kept breaking for many people, etc... I bought the alu one for that reason alone. Also, ipods are not super strong, and the recent ones rarely last more than 2 years for me. Maybe I am just careless, but the IBM thinkpad I got lasted for years and were built like tanks (and unfortunately looked like as well...).