6 ms·
Is it so hard for you fanboys to say something like "Lying is wrong and he shouldn't have done it" and just leave it at that? No bullshit, no qualifications, no
by martythemaniak 16y ago
Is it so hard for you fanboys to say something like "Lying is wrong and he shouldn't have done it" and just leave it at that? No bullshit, no qualifications, no Gruber-style excuses, just a simple condemnation of someone doing something wrong.
- swombat 16y agoStay civil.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- anonymous246 16y agoStay truthful.
- tvon 16y agoThe truth is calling someone a "fanboy" is childish and virtually guaranteed to send the discussion in a bad direction.
- nowarninglabel 16y agoWhat are we supposed to say? I don't think I'm the only one who is tired of what basically amounts to Apple marketing being posted constantly on HN (and sure maybe the rate of those posts is lower than sites like Techmeme but it's still quite high, see for example Ipad 2 posts http://www.google.com/search?q=site:news.ycombinator.com+%22ipad+2%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=site:news.ycombinator.com+%22... ) There has to be some way to identify this group of people, and say, look it's fine that you love Apple, but this is a place for in-depth discussions, not a place to show the latest shiny new trinket and 'ooh' and 'ahh' over its features.
- tptacek 16y agoAs you have just demonstrated, it is perfectly possible to complain about the coverage Apple gets on HN without calling people names.
- burgerbrain 16y agoSo are you going to answer his question? Since 'fanboys' is taboo or insulting, what are we supposed to collectively refer to these people as?
- nkurz 16y agoHis particular question reads fine as "Is it so hard to" without referring to who feels that way. If he genuinely wanted a response, he could be inclusive with "Is it so hard for us to". "Fanboys" is not taboo, but is insulting and unlikely to obtain a friendly response. "Fans of Apple" is probably a better neutral term. But like the original author, I wonder if you are actually asking a question. Are you?
- rbarooah 16y agoWhy do you need a term aside from for use in ad hominem attacks?
- burgerbrain 16y agoFor effective communication. Specific terminology has more uses than insults you know.
- rbarooah 16y agoIf you read the thread, you'll see that there was no fawning. Just an attempt to understand the motivation behind Jobs negative statements. Understanding how and why someone like Jobs communicates seems pretty relevant to this community. Name calling does not.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- ascendant 16y agoNot everyone is a fanboy. Some people just have different opinions. Also, did Steve Jobs come to your house and kick your dog or something? Calm down.
- rbarooah 16y agoIf you respond to something I actually wrote, I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
- jongraehl 16y agoThat was definitely a response to what you wrote. However, I don't think it's a fair to demand: "JUST condemn it, and offer no excuses." You're free to excuse if you like.
- rbarooah 16y agoI didn't make excuses. I said it was negative and that I didn't like it. I attempted to explain why I thought he was doing it. I find it interesting to try to understand people's motivations rather than condemn them even if I dislike what they are doing.
- alex_c 16y agoIsn't the motivation "they lie to sell more devices" - which is what your post seems to dance around, without outright saying it? Or am I oversimplifying?
- rbarooah 16y agoYou're oversimplifying. The misquote of the Samsung executive is the only thing he said that might be dishonest. Unlike the original statement by Samsung that they sold 2 million devices. The fact is that executives in the industry make misleading statements all the time. These statements end up in headlines and do influence people. This is fact. Does this mean I like it? Of course not. Do I think it would be better if Jobs was a lot more careful to say things that are unimpeachably clean - very much so. I think they make these kinds of statements to try to counteract the kinds of falsehoods that others are making. Other than the Samsung quote, Jobs didn't lie. How is exaggerating the outrage and pretending that he did, any better than what he's accused of?
- jrockway 16y agoApple is a religion. It's like when, 2000 years ago, some flood destroyed some town. They knew God caused floods, and they thought God liked everyone, so they came up with some bullshit like, "those people had impure thoughts". You have to "qualify it" or else everything you believe in is gone. Now, the stakes are lower for tablet PCs versus The Meaning Of Life, and we all know... the lower the stakes, the more people care. Now you understand why so much hot air is devoted to Apple vs. The World. The best reaction is to just laugh at the whole thing. They won't even tell you how much RAM the thing they want you to buy has. And you don't care, because you can't use it like a real computer. Wait, now I'm depressed.
- jrockway 16y agoWow, the Spanish Inquisition works quickly! Already down to -4!
- bad_user 16y agoI don't buy Apple products in general (with only one exception) and I think this presentation was of really poor taste, being in total agreement with the article. That said ... I have an iPhone 3GS and I couldn't care less that it has lower resolution, a 600 MHz processor and only 256 MB of RAM. I totally prefer it over any Android high-end device available right now, because it runs smoothly, it has all the apps that I need including a couple of cool games, upgrades have been smooth and I haven't had any problems with it. I don't like the iPad, I don't like their closed iTunes repository. But I really think more hardware / software companies should be focusing more on functionality, polish, user experience rather than technical specifications. And here I was hoping that at least one hardware company gets it. And yet I see them entering that same shitty game.
- ubernostrum 16y agoIs it so hard to accept that there are reasonable people in the world who disagree with you? Or is childish name-calling your way of dealing with that?
- jodrellblank 16y agoIs it so hard for you black and white moralists to say something like "companies interpret any data they can in the most favourable light they possibly can and it's up to you to work out what you want to know" instead of classifying the company you like's interpretation as "truth" and the company you dislike's interpretation as "lies"?
- tptacek 16y agoYou've been here for 1,466 days, and you didn't realize that this might not be the way to move a debate forward on HN? Please try harder not to call people names.
- martythemaniak 16y agoYou know what really helps debate? Not lying and not defending liars.
- rbarooah 16y agoSo that justifies your abusive behavior?
- martythemaniak 16y agoYeah, because calling out someone's bullshit is now "abusive behaviour". Listen, people here aren't retarded - they don't need someone to try and explain why Jobs lied. He lied because he can make himself and Apple look better if he told the truth. It's the same reason most other people lie and it's so transparent a toddler can see through it. No one's gonna stop you from posting low quality Apple fluff, but don't expect not to get called out on it.
- tptacek 16y agoThe problem with your comment is that it begs for a response in kind. The tone on the thread changes, from tendentious to outright hostile. Users click into threads and see high-ranked comments with that tone. They write their own comments like that. Oh, look. Now we're Reddit.
- extension 16y agoI think he used just the right amount of vitriol to best make his point. He's adding something valuable to the discussion and that's all that really matters to me. It's not tone that leads to Reddit, it's too many posters with too little to say.